Preston (00:01.479)
Hi there and welcome again to a different episode of Freelance 2 Founder. My title is Preston Lee with Millo.co and becoming a member of me on the air at present is my buddy Clay Mosley from GetDripify.com. Hey Clay, the way you doing man?

Clay Mosley (00:12.45)
Hi there, good day. Doing good, man. I’m excited for 2024 podcasting season.

Preston (00:21.023)
That’s proper, we’re simply getting began with 2024. By the time this airs, we’ll be a number of weeks into it, but it surely simply feels good to be again chatting with you. I missed you. And it’s simply enjoyable. How’s, do you have got snow down in Texas nowadays?

Clay Mosley (00:30.954)
Hahaha!

Clay Mosley (00:35.926)
Uh, no, I’m, it’s like 70 levels.

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Preston (00:39.375)
Oh my gosh, I’m so jealous of you. We acquired like 9 inches of snow yesterday, randomly out of nowhere. Like I pulled out of my storage to go to church and didn’t even actually comprehend it had snowed and abruptly I’m driving via like 9 inches of snow. It was nuts. Nicely, we acquired loads of it. Come on up. We acquired a visitor room you possibly can keep in and loads of snow. So additionally becoming a member of us at present, most likely is aware of somewhat bit extra about snow is my visitor is Tina. Hello, Tina.

Clay Mosley (00:45.626)
I would like the snow

Clay Mosley (00:55.682)
I would like extra of that. I would like that.

Clay Mosley (01:02.996)
Hehehehe

Tina Zegel (01:09.393)
Hello, thanks for having me on the present.

Preston (01:12.035)
Completely calling in from Minnesota, proper? Yeah, snow up there? What?

Tina Zegel (01:14.609)
Sure, Minnesota. Hardly. It’s very uncommon. All people’s scratching their heads, questioning the place it’s.

Preston (01:21.579)
Yeah, as a result of normally you have got a bunch, proper? Yeah

Tina Zegel (01:23.609)
Yep, yeah, persons are ready to get on the ice to do every kind of issues and it’s not occurring.

Preston (01:27.827)
Yeah, yeah, properly, world warming and all that, whether or not you imagine it in or not, I don’t know. However for some purpose, we’ve had a reasonably dry season too. Anyway, that’s fairly boring. So we’re going to maneuver on. Tina, why don’t you inform us somewhat bit about and that was my fault. It’s boring. Not your fault, Tina. Tina, inform us about your small business. Save me from this terrible section I’m doing right here.

Tina Zegel (01:32.622)
Thanks.

Tina Zegel (01:40.789)
I’m going to go forward and switch it off.

Tina Zegel (01:47.628)
Hahaha

Clay Mosley (01:48.599)
I used to be gonna allow you to hold going.

Preston (01:52.359)
Tina, why don’t you save me? Inform me, inform us somewhat bit about your small business, what you’re engaged on, the companies you present, how lengthy you’ve been in enterprise. Simply sort of paint an image for us.

Tina Zegel (01:59.957)
Certain. So I’ve been working independently as a graphic designer and a meals and product photographer for eight years. And previous to that, I really did the maths earlier than this name as a result of wow, I’ve really been doing this for longer than I noticed. I’ve been doing this for 17 years. And I began working for pure meat corporations 17 years in the past, and labored for them for fairly a number of years after which went out alone.

Preston (02:10.264)
Oh cool.

Tina Zegel (02:29.893)
eight years in the past. And since going alone, I did that after I had two younger kids. So I’ve, by design, deliberately saved my enterprise small. And it’s labored actually, very well as a result of I really like what I do and I could make some respectable revenue alone schedule from my own residence.

And but I’ve been holding this rigidity for eight years, like when am I going to develop and the way am I going to do it? And I spend a lot time interested by it and questioning about it. After which just lately, I had this realization as a result of I’ve so many goals which can be on maintain on a shelf, like simply build up for the one day after I lastly resolve that it’s time. And the rationale it’s not time but is as a result of the way in which that I select to coach my kids, I homeschool them.

Preston (03:05.331)
Hmm.

Tina Zegel (03:28.281)
Um, and one day that will change or one day they could grow old the place I’m simply much less concerned in a day to day. Yeah. So I’ve simply been holding this query actually for eight years as a result of I really like what I do. I really like my job. It fills me up. I might really do it and get paid nothing. So it’s a very nice bonus that I make a pleasant revenue doing what I really like.

Preston (03:35.731)
Assured they’ll grow old. Yeah.

Tina Zegel (03:57.753)
Um, after which anyway, a pair months in the past, I used to be listening to the podcast and I believed, right here I’m having this concept in my thoughts that sometime I’m going to attempt to get a training name with Preston and Clay. After which it dawned on me, they could change their minds one day. They could, you realize, have a profession change and resolve their podcasts over. What am I ready for? So I simply, I actually wish to choose your brains as a result of I don’t know if it’s going to be.

Clay Mosley (04:20.695)
Ha ha ha.

Tina Zegel (04:26.053)
in three months or six months or two years, however I actually have plenty of confusion about how one can develop as a result of I positively, I work in a silo. I’m not, I’m not an company in any respect. It’s simply me. I’ve been quietly doing my factor for eight years and loving it, but it surely doesn’t ever change. It’s simply the identical factor for eight years.

Preston (04:54.427)
I really like the way you’ve put it although. Like we talked to so many people who find themselves like, oh, I’ve been, you realize, working a day job for, and I used to be this, proper? I’ve been working a day job for eight years, doing stuff on the aspect of pondering like one day, one day I’m gonna, you realize, some magic one thing’s gonna occur or I’m gonna construct up the nerve or no matter. One day, one day, one day. And I did that for therefore a few years. And I really like that you just’re citing this level, which I’ll suppose plenty of freelancers face, which is like, issues are good. Issues are ok, proper? And

Tina Zegel (05:12.638)
and

Preston (05:23.731)
However there’s one thing possibly at the back of your thoughts, one thing deep down going like, oh, may there be extra? May there be extra to working my very own enterprise? Would I’ve extra enjoyable or earn more money or no matter and nonetheless have the ability to possibly have the life-style with my household that I would like, homeschool my children, no matter that your priorities are. So I really like that you just introduced that up as a result of I feel that occurs to all of us in a technique or one other.

Tina Zegel (05:48.581)
Yeah, I simply, the limbo is odd. I by no means thought, properly, in so some ways, life shouldn’t be what we predict it’s once we get to the following season. However I’ve been holding this query for therefore lengthy and I’m like, I don’t wanna wait one other eight years. I don’t even know if I wanna wait one other yr. I wanna discover out and I actually wanna check the waters with what’s it even like to rent someone? I’d resolve I hate it, however I don’t like not figuring out. I actually wanna strive it.

Preston (06:07.283)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (06:18.201)
And I hear you guys discuss lots about hiring individuals. Ought to I rent individuals? As a result of some individuals select to not. Some individuals select to simply keep impartial. However I suppose in my thoughts, I can’t even image how to do this logistically and the way to do this in a manner that’s not likely high threat. As a result of I suppose I really feel like one of many, I’m not a designer that thinks.

Um, I don’t maintain a perception that there’s not one other designer that may do good work. I’m properly conscious there are many designers that do work lots, like even stronger than my work. I simply have this worry of them not delivering and in addition delivering. Possibly on time. So then what do I do to speak to my consumer? As a result of I’ve a extremely good observe report of figuring out what I can get accomplished.

when and after I can get it accomplished. And so I feel that’s my massive worry. I do know that there’s succesful designers and I feel my worry is that they received’t ship on time after which what do I do? I sort of again myself right into a nook.

Preston (07:34.703)
Yeah, okay, that’s a tricky one. And I really like that you just carry that up. I feel that is one thing we don’t discuss lots about once we discuss hiring and that’s, and Clay and I’ve confronted this ourselves, proper? And that’s that you just rent somebody they usually don’t ship or they ship late or their high quality is manner decrease than what you thought it was gonna be. And that may be a actual problem. And simply to carry everybody on top of things rapidly too, you place in your survey as you ready for the present.

Clay Mosley (07:44.423)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (08:03.123)
And for those who wanna come on the present, for those who’re frightened that Clay and I are gonna cease podcasting subsequent month, additionally, which we’re not, however we’d like to have you ever as quickly as potential. I really like that Tina, you simply have been like, you realize what, I’m simply gonna do it. And we’d like to have you ever listener on the present as properly. You simply go to free and also you scroll to the underside of the web page, you fill out a fast questionnaire. On that questionnaire, one of many questions is, on a scale of 1 to 10, one being a freelancer, 10 being a founder, the place would you place your self?

Clay Mosley (08:07.416)
Hahaha

Preston (08:30.667)
and the place do you wish to be, proper? And you place that you just’re at the moment at a two, you’d prefer to be at a 4. And to me, yeah, one of many massive differentiators between a two and a 4 is you’ve employed somebody, even when it’s only a contractor, proper? It doesn’t should be a full-time worker. And so I really like that you just’ve introduced up this concern, which is like, how do I do know I can depend on someone? And we’ve talked about, such as you mentioned on the present, to suppose that you just’re the one designer that may do properly at design is kind of…

ridiculous in a manner, proper? And so I’m glad that’s not the problem. The difficulty is how do I do know somebody’s gonna ship and in the event that they don’t, what do I do to keep up a very good consumer relationship? So I’ve some concepts, however Clay, is something bouncing round in your thoughts as you hear among the issues that Tina’s citing?

Clay Mosley (09:11.177)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (09:16.43)
Yeah, so I can inform you proper now hiring your first particular person is probably the most is probably the most nerve wracking factor. The primary rent is all the time the yeah it’s the hardest one. It will get manner simpler after that, however the very first one is hard as a result of I keep in mind, I keep in mind the primary time I employed someone and

Preston (09:30.631)
Yeah, that first one’s powerful.

Clay Mosley (09:45.274)
I used to be in a, financially I used to be able the place that first particular person was getting paid greater than me. You already know? And that’s simply, that’s simply the truth of startup. You already know, it’s such as you put your a reimbursement into, I’m not saying that is going to be true for you, Tina. However my level is, is I used to be tremendous, tremendous nervous about it. I’m going to sort of burst your bubble right here somewhat bit.

Preston (09:54.159)
Yep

Clay Mosley (10:10.05)
You don’t the query is how are you aware they’re going to have the ability to ship you actually don’t know till you really rent them Now I’ll say this Yeah, I’ll say this although as a result of I’ve i’ve had i’ve employed a many individuals um each as w2 staff, um, and as contractors like most likely at the very least Whole hires most likely at the very least 4 dozen

Tina Zegel (10:18.037)
Nothing to be pleased with, hoping for.

Clay Mosley (10:38.71)
within the final eight years, there are issues which you could put in place to reduce the influence it’s going to have on your small business to at the very least strive them out. So to reply your query, you’re not going to know till you place them to the check, however you possibly can run them via, I don’t know, mainly a gauntlet, mainly what I name it to see in the event that they’re going to suit.

Preston (11:06.427)
Yeah, I agree with that. I’m a agency believer that it’s not okay to get free work in the course of the software course of, however I feel there may be alternative the place you could possibly pay somebody on a one-off challenge, proper? So like, let’s say you have got a challenge, Tina, that has loads of runway. Possibly the following time a consumer involves you and says, I would like this and this accomplished, you bid it out, however you give them a timeline that’s possibly twice so long as you’d usually take.

Clay Mosley (11:13.506)
quickly.

Preston (11:33.999)
And you then discover a contractor that you just rent only for that challenge, proper? It’s not a long-term association, it’s not everlasting, there’s very low threat, and also you rent them for this one challenge, and possibly you discover them via a market or via your community or one thing like that, proper? And also you simply rent them one-off. And chances are you’ll even give them the majority of the fee of that one challenge simply to expedite the entire course of, proper? And you then give them a deadline.

Tina Zegel (11:59.285)
Thanks.

Preston (12:02.619)
And you then see how they reply. And since you’ve given your self a extremely lengthy timeline on this singular challenge, then worst case state of affairs, in the event that they don’t ship on time, you possibly can both take a late challenge from them and nonetheless ship to your consumer on time, or you could possibly step in and simply do the challenge. Sure, it is perhaps a ache, however that might be once more, worst case state of affairs, proper? Ideally, center case state of affairs, they’re like a number of days late or one thing, after which excellent case state of affairs, they ship on time. And so,

Tina Zegel (12:20.169)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (12:23.633)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (12:31.023)
I feel you can begin actually small. Typically we predict we use the phrase hiring and it’s like, properly, I gotta discover somebody who’s gonna be completely on my group. Nearly everybody that I’ve employed on my group, I began with like a one-off challenge first. Nicely, that’s not true now, however I might say early on I did. And it was like, are you able to write an article for the website or are you able to design this factor or are you able to develop this plan or are you able to provide you with concepts for XYZ? And I simply paid them for one challenge.

After which I acquired an thought of how they really work, how they convey, after they ship, all of these questions you have got which can be a black field proper now, all of them grow to be very, very clear in working with that particular person on a one-off challenge. After which if that goes properly, and you’ll even say to them upfront, if this goes properly, I’ve, you realize, I might love to determine a long-term factor, however I wanna be certain that it really works out properly for each of us earlier than we decide to one thing, you realize, extra in depth. Yeah.

Clay Mosley (13:24.042)
Yeah, be clear about that.

Tina Zegel (13:27.593)
That is sensible, thanks. So it appears like I’m simply really want to construct in buffers for the simply in case they don’t ship.

Preston (13:38.011)
Yeah, I feel that may be useful to start with. And you then’ll begin to get a really feel for like, and it’ll, trigger it’s going to additionally take longer naturally as a result of there’s further communication occurring, proper? So that you do wish to construct in a security web so that you just’re not over promising to your purchasers after which beneath delivering by lacking deadlines.

Clay Mosley (13:38.207)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (13:48.402)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (13:56.295)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (13:56.462)
However you wish to do this anyway, even for those who have been doing it by yourself, you realize?

Tina Zegel (14:00.901)
Proper, yeah, I feel I do this to some extent, however I do…

Tina Zegel (14:09.873)
I don’t know, in some way it simply appears to work out. I do have some fairly tight deadlines and large guarantees to my purchasers with somewhat little bit of buffer, however I might most likely should double or triple it if I have been delegating, even when you concentrate on the time that it takes to delegate and talk.

Clay Mosley (14:31.531)
your typical challenge.

Tina Zegel (14:33.533)
So I forgot to say, I solely work for pure meals manufacturers. So I stay in a really area of interest market, which I really like. So my initiatives could possibly be anyplace from a brand new emblem or model identification, which to be trustworthy, that doesn’t occur fairly often as a result of I solely have a number of purchasers. So I extra recurrently construct issues like meals labels, packages, brochures.

Um, I-

Clay Mosley (15:04.198)
Okay, let’s take a meals label. How lengthy does its meals label challenge take?

Tina Zegel (15:11.721)
Um, it may take anyplace from 10 minutes to many hours, actually. I did.

Clay Mosley (15:13.055)
on common.

Preston (15:19.315)
However from the time, from the time, yeah. Like from the time that the consumer agrees to do the challenge till you ship it, is {that a} week, a few days?

Clay Mosley (15:19.37)
Nicely, from a calendar timeline.

Tina Zegel (15:28.377)
Okay, so I do know you guys most likely need a simple reply on this, however I actually solely have a number of purchasers. And I virtually simply sort of merge myself into as a member of their group. And after I first begin working with them, after I first begin working with a consumer, I ship them challenge estimates. After which I transfer away from that after they belief me. And I simply cost them every thing they ship me.

Preston (15:32.935)
Hahaha

Preston (15:40.765)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (15:56.921)
I inform them after I suppose I’ll have the ability to get it accomplished, after which I cost by the hour.

Clay Mosley (16:03.463)
Okay, so…

Tina Zegel (16:04.057)
So actually they could, they might ship me a challenge that takes me 10 minutes, or they might ship me a challenge that takes 40 hours.

Clay Mosley (16:12.706)
Let me construct a hypothetical scenario. I’m a consumer that I already belief you. And I mentioned, I would like a label for this meals product. Right here’s my cash, growth, I paid you. How lengthy will it take? I’m asking as a consumer on this hypothetical scenario. How lengthy will or not it’s? What’s the supply time?

Tina Zegel (16:15.321)
Okay.

Tina Zegel (16:34.921)
Yeah. So let’s see.

Tina Zegel (16:41.269)
So I might inform them it’s gonna take me two weeks.

Clay Mosley (16:44.93)
Two weeks, okay. So for those who have been to rent someone that can assist you with this, I don’t know, and this is rather like, I’m simply going off and possibly Preston can chime in right here, however I’m simply basing this off of my expertise with hiring somebody and dealing with them. I don’t suppose it’s gonna double or triple your time. I actually don’t.

Preston (17:12.796)
I agree with that. Yeah.

Clay Mosley (17:13.934)
I feel it’s going to possibly, I might add in 20, 25% extra, in my view.

So as a substitute of two weeks, possibly you could possibly possibly make it like two and a half weeks.

Tina Zegel (17:23.631)
Okay.

Preston (17:34.715)
I agree, and I feel for those who’re actually, actually frightened a few freelancer delivering, I referenced what we discuss generally on the present and I feel you referenced it as properly, Tina, and that’s prefer to suppose that you just’re the one particular person that may do this work is simply, it doesn’t make any sense, proper? There’s so many gifted individuals. And so that you acknowledge that. I feel it’s additionally necessary to acknowledge there are such a lot of individuals who can ship.

Clay Mosley (17:52.12)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (18:01.759)
good high quality initiatives on time they usually do they usually make a dwelling doing that identical to you do, proper?

Tina Zegel (18:07.162)
I feel it possibly doesn’t appear actual to me as a result of I’ve by no means accomplished it.

Preston (18:11.668)
Mm. Yeah.

Clay Mosley (18:11.818)
Let me inform you, let me inform you, let me inform you what’s gonna occur. Um, you’ll, you will see that some those that mo as you rent individuals. I simply wish to set expectations. They are going to do. Most of them will do about 80% nearly as good as you’ll.

Preston (18:31.548)
Yeah, that’s proper.

Clay Mosley (18:32.866)
A great one. So I wish to set that expectation with you as a result of for those who’re anticipating 100% nearly as good as you, that’s uncommon. That’s uncommon. They don’t care. Yeah. They are going to do about 70, 80% nearly as good as you. You’ll although, as you get into this and also you continue to grow, you want extra individuals, what is going to occur is you will see that someone who’s higher than you.

Preston (18:40.767)
They don’t care as a lot as you. It’s not their enterprise, proper?

Tina Zegel (18:43.837)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (18:48.302)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (19:01.073)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (19:02.134)
which is superior, proper?

Tina Zegel (19:04.121)
and doesn’t wish to be working a enterprise. They only wish to be doing design, after which they’re prepared to work for someone else.

Clay Mosley (19:07.378)
Yeah.

Preston (19:08.239)
Yep.

Clay Mosley (19:11.63)
Uh-huh. However I’m simply going to inform you, I simply needed to present you that expectation that almost all of them, they’re going to do 70 to 80 % nearly as good as you.

Tina Zegel (19:20.611)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (19:22.507)
The opposite factor I might add too is like in the course of the interview course of, as you’re vetting individuals, it’s completely acceptable so that you can say, I’ve a zero tolerance coverage on late initiatives is how do you’re feeling about that? Proper? Like, like if, for those who flip one thing in late, we’re not going to have the ability to work collectively on one other challenge. That’ll be the top of it. So I imply, that’s a really arduous line within the sand, proper? But when it’s that necessary to you, it’s okay to carry that up. And

Tina Zegel (19:35.201)
Okay.

Tina Zegel (19:45.99)
Thanks.

Tina Zegel (19:49.617)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (19:50.511)
And also you would possibly in actual life be extra lenient, proper? However getting their response to one thing like that’s necessary. If they are saying, oh, no drawback, I really feel the identical manner. I hate it when issues are late and I’m all the time on time and my purchasers love that I ship early and da da, proper? Then sure, it could possibly be lip service, proper? They could possibly be making it up, however I feel you possibly can at the very least get a way of how they reply to one thing.

Tina Zegel (19:53.362)
Thanks.

Tina Zegel (20:06.555)
Yep.

Tina Zegel (20:16.526)
Yeah, thanks for that. That is sensible. It’s attention-grabbing. I’m interested by this constructing in a buffer to reduce the danger of hiring someone. But it surely seems like ideally for those who discover the correct particular person, if something, it ought to go sooner, proper? As a result of there’s one in all me.

Clay Mosley (20:32.81)
It ought to go sooner. Yeah.

Yeah, it ought to go sooner. However at first, if you’re looking for the correct particular person, I feel it’s good to construct about 20% extra.

Tina Zegel (20:48.038)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (20:48.842)
As a result of, I imply, you could possibly undergo one, two, three, 5 individuals earlier than you discover somebody that’s like a proper match.

Tina Zegel (20:53.493)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Preston (20:56.911)
Yeah, I feel for me that buffer thought was extra like on this instance of discover a one off challenge, discover a one off freelancer, give it a check trip. Trigger you’re additionally going to study issues about your self, Tina, about the way you handle, the way you talk, stuff you didn’t learn about that course of, stuff you weren’t anticipating about that course of, proper? You discover somebody in a distinct time zone and abruptly you notice like communication shouldn’t be as instantaneous, proper? I’ve somebody on my group who works in Pakistan and he does an important job.

However there are generally after I’m like, I would like this factor urgently and it’s like, oh, it’s 2 a.m. proper now. I’m not gonna wake him as much as remedy this drawback, proper? So, you realize, there’s gonna be issues that come up and so I feel significantly on that first run, you wanna construct in, I’d construct in somewhat bit greater than 20 or 25% on that first one simply to learn the way issues work. After which as you get higher at it, you possibly can sort of carry that buffer down. After which in some unspecified time in the future, such as you mentioned, chances are you’ll not want a buffer anymore, proper? It’d really occur extra rapidly.

Tina Zegel (21:50.869)
Mm-hmm. So I’ve one other query. Is that this a very good time for it? OK. I additionally hear you discuss on the present about not apologizing to your purchasers that you’ve got a group and that you just’re now not simply an impartial. And I perceive that. And I might positively, over time, wish to talk to my purchasers that I’m, the truth is, working with different individuals. And I do have already got it written into my contracts with my purchasers. They’ve signed on the dotted line.

Preston (21:56.033)
Sure, let’s do it.

Tina Zegel (22:20.881)
about that I’d rent someone, however all of them know that I actually haven’t. And so I’m curious when you have an opinion on after I rent someone, say it’s a subcontractor, and I’m simply testing the waters with them. Do you’re feeling like it might be a good suggestion to really wait to inform my purchasers, like, wait till I’m not simply testing the waters and I really feel like that is actually working?

And now I actually am going to do that after which talk to them that.

Clay Mosley (22:54.526)
I might wait. I might wait. Nicely, okay. So each time I say I might wait, I everytime you’re you are attempting someone out, I contemplate it as a trial interval. They’re not really somebody who you’re going at the very least at that time not they’re not somebody who you will use regularly. Now you possibly can Out of your consumer’s perspective, you might be engaged on it proper

Tina Zegel (23:04.83)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (23:15.551)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (23:23.446)
However out of your perspective internally behind the scenes, you’re working with this different particular person. And I personally don’t suppose that’s unethical since you’re nonetheless managing the challenge. However for those who get to the purpose the place like, you’ve gone via this trial interval with this particular person, okay, you’ve gone via two, three, 4 different initiatives with this particular person, okay, now it’s fairly strong that, okay, I’m gonna hold working with this particular person.

Tina Zegel (23:35.06)
Sure.

Clay Mosley (23:52.446)
At that time, you could possibly do an introduction to your purchasers and say, hey, let’s welcome so-and-so to the group. That’s what I might do.

Tina Zegel (24:04.085)
Mm-hmm. Okay. I feel it feels odd to me as a result of a few of my purchasers I’ve been working with for like 15 years. And so I get the entire thing about, it could possibly be a extremely great point, it may even work out higher for them if I’ve someone else on my aspect. It simply feels odd to me to be working behind the scenes to not simply be one particular person after which.

I don’t know, as a result of it’s not only a, they’re not only a enterprise consumer, you realize, I’ve recognized them for 15 years. And I’m additionally able the place I prefer to be, which is I’ve a number of purchasers and that’s the place I wish to be. And I, it’s actually beautiful as a result of I really like all my purchasers and I’ve had different individuals attain out to me and ask for work. And I simply get to say no and never really feel unhealthy about it. So I actually, actually love that I get to decide on my purchasers.

Clay Mosley (24:38.691)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (25:02.577)
as a result of…

Clay Mosley (25:05.11)
Nicely, let’s discuss why does it really feel odd to you?

Tina Zegel (25:10.426)
Um, I suppose it feels somewhat disingenuous, like, as a result of I’m a fairly open e book simply generally about my, about myself and the way in which I do enterprise and I don’t know, it simply feels odd. I don’t know if I can put phrases to it.

Clay Mosley (25:13.678)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (25:27.79)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (25:28.013)
such as you’re being misleading?

Tina Zegel (25:29.874)
Possibly, yeah.

Clay Mosley (25:32.491)
On the finish of the day although, is it your title that you just put your stamp of approval on it?

Tina Zegel (25:39.633)
Sure, like I might, yeah, particularly to start with as I’m constructing belief with someone, they actually, this different particular person actually could be behind the scenes. And I wouldn’t, at the very least to start with for certain, I might, you realize, all of the communication and all of the deliverables could be via, from me to the consumer. So I suppose it shouldn’t matter. It’s simply.

Clay Mosley (25:49.111)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (26:02.582)
Wait, so if you say it feels odd, are you speaking about like each time, like at first whereas they’re on a trial interval, or are you speaking about as soon as they grow to be like, quote unquote, a part of your group, and now they’re working with this consumer that you just’ve had for 15 years as a substitute of you?

Tina Zegel (26:20.861)
I feel each, however extra so the primary one. Me. Yeah.

Clay Mosley (26:26.337)
Okay.

Clay Mosley (26:30.399)
I feel it’s simply new. I feel that’s fairly actually, I feel that’s what it’s. It is a very, very regular factor, by the way in which. It’s a really regular factor. And I feel within the first scenario when somebody’s in a trial interval and also you’re working behind the scenes with this contractor, on the finish of the day, you might be placing the stamp of approval on it. You might be nonetheless delivering it to your consumer. It’s not this different particular person, it’s you.

Tina Zegel (26:37.191)
Okay.

Preston (26:40.08)
Completely.

Tina Zegel (26:58.473)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (26:58.858)
So I feel that that’s okay. Within the different scenario the place let’s simply say, okay, this particular person’s understanding, I’m now going to let this contractor handle, not handle, however do consumer communication immediately with this consumer that you just’ve had for 15 years. I can see the place that could possibly be. Sure, that’s a…

Preston (27:24.499)
to me is a manner greater step.

Tina Zegel (27:26.548)
Yeah.

Clay Mosley (27:27.518)
a lot greater step and I feel when you have a consumer who’s been working with you for 15 years, they’re buddies with you at this level, proper? I feel in the event that they’re true buddies, they’re gonna be completely happy for you that you just’re rising.

Tina Zegel (27:37.261)
Yeah, yeah, as a result of

Tina Zegel (27:47.075)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (27:50.163)
And actually on the finish of the day, they want, they want the deliverable, the value that you just’ve been delivering all this time, proper? And sure, I’m certain they value your friendship and every thing else that comes with working with you. However on the finish of the day, like they, the one purpose this is able to go improper is when you have another person working with them they usually’re not delivering the identical high quality of challenge that you just ship, proper? And-

Tina Zegel (28:17.351)
Proper.

Preston (28:18.139)
And so then it turns into like your job turns into high quality management, each within the communication and within the challenge itself. And it’s a must to oversee that. And, and I might, I might make that clear together with your consumer, significantly for those who’re deciding, for those who’re attempting to resolve, like these individuals who I’ve labored completely with for 15 years and it’s simply been me, I feel I might say if, if I have been in your footwear, I might say to them privately,

Tina Zegel (28:25.376)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (28:43.323)
Everytime you really feel prefer it’s proper to introduce them to this information particular person, proper? I might additionally say to them privately and along with an introduction the place the opposite particular person’s concerned, I might then say, and in addition, I would like you to know the way necessary our relationship is. I’ve liked working with you. I’m going to be very, very concerned in your initiatives, however chances are you’ll talk somewhat extra with this particular person. When you ever have any difficulty or concern or query or something or really feel such as you’re not getting a response or for those who simply something, please come to me. I’m 100% obtainable.

you possibly can nonetheless attain me as you all the time have. However I’m simply attempting to, you realize, get your initiatives accomplished somewhat extra rapidly or carry somewhat extra further artistic aptitude or one thing like that, proper? Such as you actually finish on a optimistic, however allow them to know that you just’re there 100% for them nonetheless.

Clay Mosley (29:18.625)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (29:19.984)
and

Tina Zegel (29:25.173)
Mm-hmm. Okay. So do you ever hear of individuals rising a enterprise in a manner, like hypothetically talking, in a yr from now, say I’m now not homeschooling my kids and I all of a sudden had much more time after which I went and located extra work? And what would you concentrate on me sort of persevering with my enterprise as is with the purchasers that I liked and

was once employed by a few of them, and now they’re a consumer of mine. After which if I took on new purchasers and sort of handled them in a different way, like they’re the purchasers which can be working with a group extra than simply myself.

Preston (30:04.498)
Yeah.

Preston (30:12.351)
I feel there’s nothing improper with that so long as you simply perceive the place your time’s going to be spent, proper? Like how a lot time am I going to should proceed to dedicate to my purchasers that I wish to simply work one on one with? I feel there’s nothing improper with that. The truth is, that’s your prerogative as a enterprise proprietor to say like, these are the purchasers and initiatives I would like after which everybody else can have these different ones which can be going to assist pay the payments however that I’m not tremendous keen about or I don’t have an extended historical past with or no matter. There’s nothing improper with that. And I feel really that could possibly be a very good segue or a very good…

Clay Mosley (30:16.779)
Yeah.

Tina Zegel (30:37.045)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (30:38.67)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (30:41.511)
kind of bridge between the place you at the moment are and the place you wanna be, as a result of in some unspecified time in the future then, your present purchasers, who you’re frightened about, that we’ve been speaking about, possibly they get wind from one other consumer that you’ve got this group, proper? They usually’re like, whoa, maintain on, you have got extra sources we may faucet into or no matter? And also you’re like, yeah, I’ve acquired a author and a no matter, and we’d love that can assist you with these initiatives. Otherwise you carry it up your self and also you’re like, hey, simply so you realize, over the past yr, I’ve added…

Tina Zegel (30:56.821)
Thanks.

Tina Zegel (31:04.361)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (31:10.827)
us, this particular person and this particular person to the group, which suggests we are able to now supply these companies if there’s one thing we might help you with. We’d love to do this. You already know, and it simply, yeah, I feel it offers alternative to bridge that hole somewhat bit.

Tina Zegel (31:17.651)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (31:22.689)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I’m unsure why I didn’t consider that earlier than, however I’m glad we’re getting on this name as a result of that actually does make plenty of sense to me.

Preston (31:33.383)
Oh, good. Good. Nice. Yeah. I feel, you realize, hiring, it’s a arduous one, however plenty of it’s in our head, proper? If you concentrate on most companies, most companies have individuals working within the enterprise and because the enterprise adjustments and grows, it wants extra individuals and totally different individuals and persons are used to that, proper? That’s simply the way it works. However we get so caught up in our personal head of like, oh, are they going to be mad? Are they going to really feel ignored? Are they going to? Nicely, put…

Tina Zegel (31:40.597)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (31:47.931)
Yeah.

Clay Mosley (31:48.322)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (31:54.42)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (32:02.207)
Put issues into place in order that they don’t really feel ignored. Give them loads of discover in order that they don’t get mad and stunned by it and confused by it, proper? All of these items like paint out worst case situations and say, how am I gonna deal with this forward of time so this worst case state of affairs doesn’t occur, proper?

Clay Mosley (32:05.367)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (32:09.127)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (32:17.702)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (32:18.478)
Yeah. Hey, one factor we haven’t talked about but is, one factor to sort of like check the waters with somebody is possibly you simply give them a small a part of a challenge.

as a substitute of a complete challenge. You already know, possibly it’s one thing that’s, you realize, possibly it’s simply one thing that’s like, I don’t even know. I’m not as acquainted with, possibly Preston. Preston’s graphic design, however, you realize, possibly there’s like extra just like the setup or no matter with graphic design that someone can do and you then take over. You already know what I imply? The principle half.

Tina Zegel (32:35.015)
Yeah.

Preston (33:00.411)
Oh, I really like that concept. Or you could possibly even say like, I really feel like I’ve gotten this, you realize, you talked about bundle design earlier. I really feel like I’ve gotten this bundle design possibly like 75% of the way in which there. Are you able to check out it and simply, what would you alter or tweak? Possibly you may get it the remainder of the way in which there and simply see how they’re capable of praise your concepts, proper? I feel for those who don’t wanna be stepping away completely from that artistic course of, which I’m gathering you don’t wish to, I feel it’s necessary to see how one can work collectively.

Proper? And it is perhaps that the individuals you rent simply enable you to. Possibly you continue to work on all of the initiatives, however possibly they minimize down your time that you just spend individually on them by 50% or one thing. By them, possibly you do basic idea, you get it shut, and you then ship them a PSD file they usually end it out or no matter. Proper? And that simply lets you do extra initiatives in the identical quantity of time. I feel there’s numerous choices there. I like that. I like that mind-set about it, Clay.

Tina Zegel (33:30.453)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (33:49.029)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (33:57.606)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, thanks. I sort of really feel like I’m so deep in thought over what you’re saying. I’m unsure what I’ve right here.

Preston (34:05.467)
Hahaha

Clay Mosley (34:08.194)
You already know, on that, only one extra be aware on that, you could possibly rent somebody who shouldn’t be even a graphic designer as a result of I’m certain you have got plenty of administrative kind work that it’s a must to do.

Tina Zegel (34:22.477)
Yeah, you realize, it’s humorous, I feel it was Preston, you that mentioned that you just assumed that I might wish to be sort of within the, within the lead and really concerned, particularly with new initiatives and issues and part of me sort of needs to even check the waters with stepping away from that as a result of and even possibly collaborating with someone as a result of I get the factor about I may simply spend time and

Preston (34:30.943)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (34:50.285)
cash, principally cash to outsource some administrative issues. Which after I do develop my enterprise, that looks as if a no brainer that I’ll do. However I really sort of generally, I simply wish to collaborate with designers too. Like I’ve been working in a silo for therefore lengthy. I feel I’m extra fearful that someone’s not going to ship

Clay Mosley (34:53.591)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (35:18.557)
the correct high quality on time, then I’m really releasing some fairly sizable initiatives to someone to simply see what that seems like. To see it. Yeah.

Preston (35:23.475)
Hmm.

Preston (35:30.099)
Nicely, I really like that you just’re interested by it that manner. And I might simply remind you once more, then that there are many designers who ship on time, ship early. Um, yeah, I feel it might take a minute to search out the one who works in your, in your finest timetable, however you realize, there’s, there’s numerous dependable freelancers on the market, gifted, dependable freelancers.

Tina Zegel (35:45.981)
Mm-hmm.

Clay Mosley (35:51.394)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (35:52.47)
I do know it ought to be the obvious factor and for no matter purpose I’m like caught on the aspect of this big wall there’s all these succesful designers on the opposite aspect of it

Preston (36:05.719)
And the one strategy to overcome that’s to have and have a optimistic expertise, proper? They are saying experiences create beliefs. You’ve someplace alongside the road, you’ve had an expertise or multiple possibly the place somebody hasn’t delivered, proper? And so that you’ve constructed up this perception in your thoughts. And so that you must have some optimistic experiences. You want to discover some freelancers who offer you a optimistic expertise when it comes to deadline. And that’ll begin to change. And also you’ll begin to go, huh, okay, individuals can ship on time. I can belief them to do this.

Clay Mosley (36:10.07)
Mm-hmm.

Tina Zegel (36:35.866)
Yeah, I hope in six months or 12 months each time I resolve to present it a go, I hope I can simply get again on the on a name and say I did it and it labored properly and neatest thing ever.

Clay Mosley (36:47.342)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (36:48.103)
Nicely, we hope so too. It’s been an actual pleasure chatting with you at present. This has been enjoyable for me. We’ve talked about some issues we’ve by no means talked about on the present earlier than. So thanks, Tina, for having the braveness to return on the present and let everybody hear what you’re as much as. If you want to affix us, we’d like to have you ever listener. Please go to free after which simply scroll to the underside of the web page, join a time and we chat about your small business. Tina, earlier than you go, will you let all people know the place they will join with you in case they wish to work with you?

Tina Zegel (37:16.277)
Completely. So I’m on LinkedIn. I’m embarrassed to say I don’t know my precise URL to get there, however my website is TinaZigel.com. It’s T-I- And from there, you will discover me on LinkedIn additionally.

Preston (37:35.839)
I find it irresistible. Tina, thanks a lot. I’ve been Preston from millow.co, and naturally, Clay from getdripify.com. Thanks for becoming a member of us at present, Clay. We’ll discuss to you guys subsequent time.

Clay Mosley (37:36.654)
Good.

Clay Mosley (37:45.087)
See ya!

Tina Zegel (37:45.929)
Thanks.