Preston (00:01.479)
Howdy and welcome again to a different episode of Freelance to Founder. My title is Preston Lee with Millo.co and becoming a member of me on the air at present is my pal Clay Mosley from GetDripify.com. Hey Clay, the way you doing man?
Clay Mosley (00:12.45)
Howdy, hiya. Doing good, man. I’m excited for 2024 podcasting season.
Preston (00:21.023)
That’s proper, we’re simply getting began with 2024. By the time this airs, we’ll be just a few weeks into it, however it simply feels good to be again chatting with you. I missed you. And it’s simply enjoyable. How’s, do you’ve got snow down in Texas as of late?
Clay Mosley (00:30.954)
Hahaha!
Clay Mosley (00:35.926)
Uh, no, I’m, it’s like 70 levels.
Preston (00:39.375)
Oh my gosh, I’m so jealous of you. We obtained like 9 inches of snow yesterday, randomly out of nowhere. Like I pulled out of my storage to go to church and didn’t even actually realize it had snowed and abruptly I’m driving by means of like 9 inches of snow. It was nuts. Properly, we obtained loads of it. Come on up. We obtained a visitor room you possibly can keep in and loads of snow. So additionally becoming a member of us at present, most likely is aware of slightly bit extra about snow is my visitor is Tina. Hello, Tina.
Tina Zegel (01:09.393)
Hello, thanks for having me on the present.
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Preston (01:12.035)
Completely calling in from Minnesota, proper? Yeah, snow up there? What?
Tina Zegel (01:14.609)
Sure, Minnesota. Hardly. It’s very uncommon. Everyone’s scratching their heads, questioning the place it’s.
Preston (01:21.579)
Yeah, as a result of normally you’ve got a bunch, proper? Yeah
Tina Zegel (01:23.609)
Yep, yeah, individuals are ready to get on the ice to do every kind of issues and it’s not taking place.
Preston (01:27.827)
Yeah, yeah, effectively, international warming and all that, whether or not you imagine it in or not, I don’t know. However for some purpose, we’ve had a reasonably dry season too. Anyway, that’s fairly boring. So we’re going to maneuver on. Tina, why don’t you inform us slightly bit about and that was my fault. It’s boring. Not your fault, Tina. Tina, inform us about your enterprise. Save me from this terrible section I’m doing right here.
Tina Zegel (01:32.622)
Thanks.
Tina Zegel (01:40.789)
I’m going to go forward and switch it off.
Tina Zegel (01:47.628)
Hahaha
Clay Mosley (01:48.599)
I used to be gonna allow you to preserve going.
Preston (01:52.359)
Tina, why don’t you save me? Inform me, inform us slightly bit about your enterprise, what you’re engaged on, the providers you present, how lengthy you’ve been in enterprise. Simply form of paint an image for us.
Tina Zegel (01:59.957)
Certain. So I’ve been working independently as a graphic designer and a meals and product photographer for eight years. And previous to that, I really did the maths earlier than this name as a result of wow, I’ve really been doing this for longer than I spotted. I’ve been doing this for 17 years. And I began working for pure meat corporations 17 years in the past, and labored for them for fairly just a few years after which went out by myself.
Preston (02:10.264)
Oh cool.
Tina Zegel (02:29.893)
eight years in the past. And since going by myself, I did that once I had two younger kids. So I’ve, by design, deliberately saved my enterprise small. And it’s labored actually, rather well as a result of I like what I do and I could make some first rate revenue by myself schedule from my own residence.
And but I’ve been holding this pressure for eight years, like when am I going to develop and the way am I going to do it? And I spend a lot time desirous about it and questioning about it. After which not too long ago, I had this realization as a result of I’ve so many goals which might be on maintain on a shelf, like simply increase for the one day once I lastly resolve that it’s time. And the explanation it’s not time but is as a result of the best way that I select to coach my kids, I homeschool them.
Preston (03:05.331)
Hmm.
Tina Zegel (03:28.281)
Um, and one day which will change or one day they might become older the place I’m simply much less concerned in a day to day. Yeah. So I’ve simply been holding this query actually for eight years as a result of I like what I do. I like my job. It fills me up. I’d really do it and get paid nothing. So it’s a very nice bonus that I make a pleasant revenue doing what I like.
Preston (03:35.731)
Assured they’ll become older. Yeah.
Tina Zegel (03:57.753)
Um, after which anyway, a pair months in the past, I used to be listening to the podcast and I assumed, right here I’m having this concept in my thoughts that sometime I’m going to attempt to get a training name with Preston and Clay. After which it dawned on me, they may change their minds one day. They may, you realize, have a profession change and resolve their podcasts over. What am I ready for? So I simply, I actually need to decide your brains as a result of I don’t know if it’s going to be.
Clay Mosley (04:20.695)
Ha ha ha.
Tina Zegel (04:26.053)
in three months or six months or two years, however I actually have quite a lot of confusion about how one can develop as a result of I positively, I work in a silo. I’m not, I’m not an company in any respect. It’s simply me. I’ve been quietly doing my factor for eight years and loving it, however it doesn’t ever change. It’s simply the identical factor for eight years.
Preston (04:54.427)
I like the way you’ve put it although. Like we talked to so many people who find themselves like, oh, I’ve been, you realize, working a day job for, and I used to be this, proper? I’ve been working a day job for eight years, doing stuff on the facet of pondering like one day, one day I’m gonna, you realize, some magic one thing’s gonna occur or I’m gonna construct up the nerve or no matter. One day, one day, one day. And I did that for therefore a few years. And I like that you just’re mentioning this level, which I’ll suppose quite a lot of freelancers face, which is like, issues are good. Issues are adequate, proper? And
Tina Zegel (05:12.638)
and
Preston (05:23.731)
However there’s one thing possibly behind your thoughts, one thing deep down going like, oh, might there be extra? May there be extra to operating my very own enterprise? Would I’ve extra enjoyable or make more cash or no matter and nonetheless be capable of possibly have the approach to life with my household that I need, homeschool my children, no matter that your priorities are. So I like that you just introduced that up as a result of I believe that occurs to all of us in a technique or one other.
Tina Zegel (05:48.581)
Yeah, I simply, the limbo is odd. I by no means thought, effectively, in so some ways, life shouldn’t be what we predict it’s once we get to the following season. However I’ve been holding this query for therefore lengthy and I’m like, I don’t wanna wait one other eight years. I don’t even know if I wanna wait one other yr. I wanna discover out and I actually wanna take a look at the waters with what’s it even like to rent any person? I’d resolve I hate it, however I don’t like not realizing. I actually wanna attempt it.
Preston (06:07.283)
Yeah.
Tina Zegel (06:18.201)
And I hear you guys speak quite a bit about hiring individuals. Ought to I rent individuals? As a result of some individuals select to not. Some individuals select to only keep unbiased. However I suppose in my thoughts, I can’t even image how to do this logistically and the way to do this in a approach that’s not likely high danger. As a result of I suppose I really feel like one of many, I’m not a designer that thinks.
Um, I don’t maintain a perception that there’s not one other designer that may do good work. I’m effectively conscious there are many designers that do work quite a bit, like even stronger than my work. I simply have this concern of them not delivering and likewise delivering. Possibly on time. So then what do I do to speak to my consumer? As a result of I’ve a very good monitor document of realizing what I can get accomplished.
when and once I can get it accomplished. And so I believe that’s my large concern. I do know that there’s succesful designers and I believe my concern is that they received’t ship on time after which what do I do? I form of again myself right into a nook.
Preston (07:34.703)
Yeah, okay, that’s a troublesome one. And I like that you just deliver that up. I believe that is one thing we don’t speak quite a bit about once we discuss hiring and that’s, and Clay and I’ve confronted this ourselves, proper? And that’s that you just rent somebody and so they don’t ship or they ship late or their high quality is approach decrease than what you thought it was gonna be. And that could be a actual problem. And simply to deliver everybody in control rapidly too, you place in your survey as you ready for the present.
Clay Mosley (07:44.423)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (08:03.123)
And should you wanna come on the present, should you’re fearful that Clay and I are gonna cease podcasting subsequent month, additionally, which we’re not, however we might like to have you ever as quickly as doable. I like that Tina, you simply had been like, you realize what, I’m simply gonna do it. And we’d like to have you ever listener on the present as effectively. You simply go to free and also you scroll to the underside of the web page, you fill out a fast questionnaire. On that questionnaire, one of many questions is, on a scale of 1 to 10, one being a freelancer, 10 being a founder, the place would you place your self?
Clay Mosley (08:07.416)
Hahaha
Preston (08:30.667)
and the place do you need to be, proper? And you place that you just’re at the moment at a two, you’d wish to be at a 4. And to me, yeah, one of many large differentiators between a two and a 4 is you’ve employed somebody, even when it’s only a contractor, proper? It doesn’t must be a full-time worker. And so I like that you just’ve introduced up this concern, which is like, how do I do know I can depend on any person? And we’ve talked about, such as you stated on the present, to suppose that you just’re the one designer that may do effectively at design is kind of…
ridiculous in a approach, proper? And so I’m glad that’s not the problem. The problem is how do I do know somebody’s gonna ship and in the event that they don’t, what do I do to keep up a very good consumer relationship? So I’ve some concepts, however Clay, is something bouncing round in your thoughts as you hear a few of the considerations that Tina’s mentioning?
Clay Mosley (09:11.177)
Mm-hmm.
Clay Mosley (09:16.43)
Yeah, so I can let you know proper now hiring your first particular person is essentially the most is essentially the most nerve wracking factor. The primary rent is all the time the yeah it’s the hardest one. It will get approach simpler after that, however the very first one is hard as a result of I bear in mind, I bear in mind the primary time I employed any person and
Preston (09:30.631)
Yeah, that first one’s robust.
Clay Mosley (09:45.274)
I used to be in a, financially I used to be able the place that first particular person was getting paid greater than me. ? And that’s simply, that’s simply the truth of startup. , it’s such as you put your a refund into, I’m not saying that is going to be true for you, Tina. However my level is, is I used to be tremendous, tremendous nervous about it. I’m going to form of burst your bubble right here slightly bit.
Preston (09:54.159)
Yep
Clay Mosley (10:10.05)
You don’t the query is how have you learnt they’re going to have the ability to ship you actually don’t know till you really rent them Now I’ll say this Yeah, I’ll say this although as a result of I’ve i’ve had i’ve employed a many individuals um each as w2 workers, um, and as contractors like most likely at the least Whole hires most likely at the least 4 dozen
Tina Zegel (10:18.037)
Nothing to be happy with, hoping for.
Clay Mosley (10:38.71)
within the final eight years, there are issues which you can put in place to attenuate the impression it would have on your enterprise to at the least attempt them out. So to reply your query, you’re not going to know till you place them to the take a look at, however you possibly can run them by means of, I don’t know, mainly a gauntlet, mainly what I name it to see in the event that they’re going to suit.
Preston (11:06.427)
Yeah, I agree with that. I’m a agency believer that it’s not okay to get free work throughout the software course of, however I believe there’s alternative the place you possibly can pay somebody on a one-off challenge, proper? So like, let’s say you’ve got a challenge, Tina, that has loads of runway. Possibly the following time a consumer involves you and says, I need this and this accomplished, you bid it out, however you give them a timeline that’s possibly twice so long as you’ll usually take.
Clay Mosley (11:13.506)
quickly.
Preston (11:33.999)
And you then discover a contractor that you just rent only for that challenge, proper? It’s not a long-term association, it’s not everlasting, there’s very low danger, and also you rent them for this one challenge, and possibly you discover them by means of a market or by means of your community or one thing like that, proper? And also you simply rent them one-off. And it’s possible you’ll even give them the majority of the cost of that one challenge simply to expedite the entire course of, proper? And you then give them a deadline.
Tina Zegel (11:59.285)
Thanks.
Preston (12:02.619)
And you then see how they reply. And since you’ve given your self a very lengthy timeline on this singular challenge, then worst case situation, in the event that they don’t ship on time, you possibly can both take a late challenge from them and nonetheless ship to your consumer on time, or you possibly can step in and simply do the challenge. Sure, it is likely to be a ache, however that will be once more, worst case situation, proper? Ideally, center case situation, they’re like just a few days late or one thing, after which good case situation, they ship on time. And so,
Tina Zegel (12:20.169)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (12:23.633)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (12:31.023)
I believe you can begin actually small. Generally we predict we use the phrase hiring and it’s like, effectively, I gotta discover somebody who’s gonna be completely on my staff. Nearly everybody that I’ve employed on my staff, I began with like a one-off challenge first. Properly, that’s not true now, however I’d say early on I did. And it was like, are you able to write an article for the website or are you able to design this factor or are you able to develop this plan or are you able to give you concepts for XYZ? And I simply paid them for one challenge.
After which I obtained an thought of how they really work, how they convey, after they ship, all of these questions you’ve got which might be a black field proper now, all of them change into very, very clear in working with that particular person on a one-off challenge. After which if that goes effectively, and you may even say to them upfront, if this goes effectively, I’ve, you realize, I’d love to determine a long-term factor, however I wanna ensure it really works out effectively for each of us earlier than we decide to one thing, you realize, extra in depth. Yeah.
Clay Mosley (13:24.042)
Yeah, be clear about that.
Tina Zegel (13:27.593)
That is smart, thanks. So it seems like I’m simply actually need to construct in buffers for the simply in case they don’t ship.
Preston (13:38.011)
Yeah, I believe that may be useful to start with. And you then’ll begin to get a really feel for like, and it’ll, trigger it would additionally take longer naturally as a result of there’s further communication taking place, proper? So that you do need to construct in a security internet so that you just’re not over promising to your purchasers after which beneath delivering by lacking deadlines.
Clay Mosley (13:38.207)
Yeah.
Tina Zegel (13:48.402)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (13:56.295)
Mm-hmm.
Clay Mosley (13:56.462)
However you need to do this anyway, even should you had been doing it by yourself, you realize?
Tina Zegel (14:00.901)
Proper, yeah, I believe I do this to some extent, however I do…
Tina Zegel (14:09.873)
I don’t know, someway it simply appears to work out. I do have some fairly tight deadlines and large guarantees to my purchasers with slightly little bit of buffer, however I’d most likely must double or triple it if I had been delegating, even when you consider the time that it takes to delegate and talk.
Clay Mosley (14:31.531)
your typical challenge.
Tina Zegel (14:33.533)
So I forgot to say, I solely work for pure meals manufacturers. So I dwell in a really area of interest market, which I like. So my tasks might be anyplace from a brand new emblem or model identification, which to be sincere, that doesn’t occur fairly often as a result of I solely have just a few purchasers. So I extra usually construct issues like meals labels, packages, brochures.
Um, I-
Clay Mosley (15:04.198)
Okay, let’s take a meals label. How lengthy does its meals label challenge take?
Tina Zegel (15:11.721)
Um, it might take anyplace from 10 minutes to many hours, actually. I did.
Clay Mosley (15:13.055)
on common.
Preston (15:19.315)
However from the time, from the time, yeah. Like from the time that the consumer agrees to do the challenge till you ship it, is {that a} week, a few days?
Clay Mosley (15:19.37)
Properly, from a calendar timeline.
Tina Zegel (15:28.377)
Okay, so I do know you guys most likely need a simple reply on this, however I actually solely have just a few purchasers. And I virtually simply form of merge myself into as a member of their staff. And once I first begin working with them, once I first begin working with a consumer, I ship them challenge estimates. After which I transfer away from that after they belief me. And I simply cost them the whole lot they ship me.
Preston (15:32.935)
Hahaha
Preston (15:40.765)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (15:56.921)
I inform them once I suppose I’ll be capable of get it accomplished, after which I cost by the hour.
Clay Mosley (16:03.463)
Okay, so…
Tina Zegel (16:04.057)
So actually they may, they might ship me a challenge that takes me 10 minutes, or they might ship me a challenge that takes 40 hours.
Clay Mosley (16:12.706)
Let me construct a hypothetical state of affairs. I’m a consumer that I already belief you. And I stated, I want a label for this meals product. Right here’s my cash, increase, I paid you. How lengthy will it take? I’m asking as a consumer on this hypothetical state of affairs. How lengthy will it’s? What’s the supply time?
Tina Zegel (16:15.321)
Okay.
Tina Zegel (16:34.921)
Yeah. So let’s see.
Tina Zegel (16:41.269)
So I’d inform them it’s gonna take me two weeks.
Clay Mosley (16:44.93)
Two weeks, okay. So should you had been to rent any person that can assist you with this, I don’t know, and this is rather like, I’m simply going off and possibly Preston can chime in right here, however I’m simply basing this off of my expertise with hiring somebody and dealing with them. I don’t suppose it’s gonna double or triple your time. I actually don’t.
Preston (17:12.796)
I agree with that. Yeah.
Clay Mosley (17:13.934)
I believe it’s going to possibly, I’d add in 20, 25% extra, in my view.
So as a substitute of two weeks, possibly you possibly can possibly make it like two and a half weeks.
Tina Zegel (17:23.631)
Okay.
Preston (17:34.715)
I agree, and I believe should you’re actually, actually fearful a couple of freelancer delivering, I referenced what we discuss typically on the present and I believe you referenced it as effectively, Tina, and that’s wish to suppose that you just’re the one particular person that may do this work is simply, it doesn’t make any sense, proper? There’s so many gifted individuals. And so that you acknowledge that. I believe it’s additionally necessary to acknowledge there are such a lot of individuals who can ship.
Clay Mosley (17:52.12)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (18:01.759)
good high quality tasks on time and so they do and so they make a dwelling doing that identical to you do, proper?
Tina Zegel (18:07.162)
I believe it possibly doesn’t appear actual to me as a result of I’ve by no means accomplished it.
Preston (18:11.668)
Mm. Yeah.
Clay Mosley (18:11.818)
Let me let you know, let me let you know, let me let you know what’s gonna occur. Um, you’ll, you’ll discover some folks that mo as you rent individuals. I simply need to set expectations. They are going to do. Most of them will do about 80% nearly as good as you’ll.
Preston (18:31.548)
Yeah, that’s proper.
Clay Mosley (18:32.866)
A great one. So I need to set that expectation with you as a result of should you’re anticipating 100% nearly as good as you, that’s uncommon. That’s uncommon. They don’t care. Yeah. They are going to do about 70, 80% nearly as good as you. You’ll although, as you get into this and also you continue to grow, you want extra individuals, what’s going to occur is you’ll discover any person who’s higher than you.
Preston (18:40.767)
They don’t care as a lot as you. It’s not their enterprise, proper?
Tina Zegel (18:43.837)
Yeah.
Tina Zegel (18:48.302)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (19:01.073)
Mm-hmm.
Clay Mosley (19:02.134)
which is superior, proper?
Tina Zegel (19:04.121)
and doesn’t need to be operating a enterprise. They only need to be doing design, after which they’re prepared to work for any person else.
Clay Mosley (19:07.378)
Yeah.
Preston (19:08.239)
Yep.
Clay Mosley (19:11.63)
Uh-huh. However I’m simply going to let you know, I simply needed to provide you that expectation that the majority of them, they’re going to do 70 to 80 % nearly as good as you.
Tina Zegel (19:20.611)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (19:22.507)
The opposite factor I’d add too is like throughout the interview course of, as you’re vetting individuals, it’s completely acceptable so that you can say, I’ve a zero tolerance coverage on late tasks is how do you’re feeling about that? Proper? Like, like if, should you flip one thing in late, we’re not going to have the ability to work collectively on one other challenge. That’ll be the top of it. So I imply, that’s a really arduous line within the sand, proper? But when it’s that necessary to you, it’s okay to deliver that up. And
Tina Zegel (19:35.201)
Okay.
Tina Zegel (19:45.99)
Thanks.
Tina Zegel (19:49.617)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (19:50.511)
And also you may in actual life be extra lenient, proper? However getting their response to one thing like that’s necessary. If they are saying, oh, no drawback, I really feel the identical approach. I hate it when issues are late and I’m all the time on time and my purchasers love that I ship early and da da, proper? Then sure, it might be lip service, proper? They might be making it up, however I believe you possibly can at the least get a way of how they reply to one thing.
Tina Zegel (19:53.362)
Thanks.
Tina Zegel (20:06.555)
Yep.
Tina Zegel (20:16.526)
Yeah, thanks for that. That is smart. It’s fascinating. I’m desirous about this constructing in a buffer to attenuate the chance of hiring any person. Nevertheless it seems like ideally should you discover the precise particular person, if something, it ought to go quicker, proper? As a result of there’s one in every of me.
Clay Mosley (20:32.81)
It ought to go quicker. Yeah.
Yeah, it ought to go quicker. However in the beginning, while you’re looking for the precise particular person, I believe it’s good to construct about 20% extra.
Tina Zegel (20:48.038)
Mm-hmm.
Clay Mosley (20:48.842)
As a result of, I imply, you possibly can undergo one, two, three, 5 individuals earlier than you discover somebody that’s like a proper match.
Tina Zegel (20:53.493)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Preston (20:56.911)
Yeah, I believe for me that buffer thought was extra like on this instance of discover a one off challenge, discover a one off freelancer, give it a take a look at journey. Trigger you’re additionally going to be taught issues about your self, Tina, about the way you handle, the way you talk, belongings you didn’t learn about that course of, belongings you weren’t anticipating about that course of, proper? You discover somebody in a unique time zone and abruptly you understand like communication shouldn’t be as instantaneous, proper? I’ve somebody on my staff who works in Pakistan and he does an excellent job.
However there are typically once I’m like, I want this factor urgently and it’s like, oh, it’s 2 a.m. proper now. I’m not gonna wake him as much as clear up this drawback, proper? So, you realize, there’s gonna be issues that come up and so I believe notably on that first run, you wanna construct in, I’d construct in slightly bit greater than 20 or 25% on that first one simply to find out how issues work. After which as you get higher at it, you possibly can form of deliver that buffer down. After which sooner or later, such as you stated, it’s possible you’ll not want a buffer anymore, proper? It would really occur extra rapidly.
Tina Zegel (21:50.869)
Mm-hmm. So I’ve one other query. Is that this a very good time for it? OK. I additionally hear you speak on the present about not apologizing to your purchasers that you’ve got a staff and that you just’re now not simply an unbiased. And I perceive that. And I’d positively, over time, need to talk to my purchasers that I’m, in reality, working with different individuals. And I do have already got it written into my contracts with my purchasers. They’ve signed on the dotted line.
Preston (21:56.033)
Sure, let’s do it.
Tina Zegel (22:20.881)
about that I’d rent any person, however all of them know that I actually haven’t. And so I’m curious when you have an opinion on once I rent any person, say it’s a subcontractor, and I’m simply testing the waters with them. Do you’re feeling like it could be a good suggestion to really wait to inform my purchasers, like, wait till I’m not simply testing the waters and I really feel like that is actually working?
And now I actually am going to do that after which talk to them that.
Clay Mosley (22:54.526)
I’d wait. I’d wait. Properly, okay. So every time I say I’d wait, I everytime you’re you are attempting any person out, I think about it as a trial interval. They’re not really somebody who you’re going at the least at that time not they’re not somebody who you’re going to use frequently. Now you possibly can Out of your consumer’s perspective, you might be engaged on it proper
Tina Zegel (23:04.83)
Yeah.
Tina Zegel (23:15.551)
Mm-hmm.
Clay Mosley (23:23.446)
However out of your perspective internally behind the scenes, you’re working with this different particular person. And I personally don’t suppose that’s unethical since you’re nonetheless managing the challenge. However should you get to the purpose the place like, you’ve gone by means of this trial interval with this particular person, okay, you’ve gone by means of two, three, 4 different tasks with this particular person, okay, now it’s fairly stable that, okay, I’m gonna preserve working with this particular person.
Tina Zegel (23:35.06)
Sure.
Clay Mosley (23:52.446)
At that time, you possibly can do an introduction to your purchasers and say, hey, let’s welcome so-and-so to the staff. That’s what I’d do.
Tina Zegel (24:04.085)
Mm-hmm. Okay. I believe it feels odd to me as a result of a few of my purchasers I’ve been working with for like 15 years. And so I get the entire thing about, it might be a very good thing, it might even work out higher for them if I’ve any person else on my facet. It simply feels odd to me to be working behind the scenes to not simply be one particular person after which.
I don’t know, as a result of it’s not only a, they’re not only a enterprise consumer, you realize, I’ve identified them for 15 years. And I’m additionally able the place I wish to be, which is I’ve just a few purchasers and that’s the place I need to be. And I, it’s actually pretty as a result of I like all my purchasers and I’ve had different individuals attain out to me and ask for work. And I simply get to say no and never really feel unhealthy about it. So I actually, actually love that I get to decide on my purchasers.
Clay Mosley (24:38.691)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (25:02.577)
as a result of…
Clay Mosley (25:05.11)
Properly, let’s discuss why does it really feel odd to you?
Tina Zegel (25:10.426)
Um, I suppose it feels slightly disingenuous, like, as a result of I’m a fairly open e book simply basically about my, about myself and the best way I do enterprise and I don’t know, it simply feels odd. I don’t know if I can put phrases to it.
Clay Mosley (25:13.678)
Mm-hmm.
Clay Mosley (25:27.79)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (25:28.013)
such as you’re being misleading?
Tina Zegel (25:29.874)
Possibly, yeah.
Clay Mosley (25:32.491)
On the finish of the day although, is it your title that you just put your stamp of approval on it?
Tina Zegel (25:39.633)
Sure, like I’d, yeah, particularly to start with as I’m constructing belief with any person, they actually, this different particular person actually could be behind the scenes. And I wouldn’t, at the least to start with for certain, I’d, you realize, all of the communication and all of the deliverables could be by means of, from me to the consumer. So I suppose it shouldn’t matter. It’s simply.
Clay Mosley (25:49.111)
Mm-hmm.
Clay Mosley (26:02.582)
Wait, so while you say it feels odd, are you speaking about like every time, like in the beginning whereas they’re on a trial interval, or are you speaking about as soon as they change into like, quote unquote, a part of your staff, and now they’re working with this consumer that you just’ve had for 15 years as a substitute of you?
Tina Zegel (26:20.861)
I believe each, however extra so the primary one. Me. Yeah.
Clay Mosley (26:26.337)
Okay.
Clay Mosley (26:30.399)
I believe it’s simply new. I believe that’s fairly actually, I believe that’s what it’s. This can be a very, very regular factor, by the best way. It’s a really regular factor. And I believe within the first state of affairs when somebody’s in a trial interval and also you’re working behind the scenes with this contractor, on the finish of the day, you might be placing the stamp of approval on it. You’re nonetheless delivering it to your consumer. It’s not this different particular person, it’s you.
Tina Zegel (26:37.191)
Okay.
Preston (26:40.08)
Completely.
Tina Zegel (26:58.473)
Mm-hmm.
Clay Mosley (26:58.858)
So I believe that that’s okay. Within the different state of affairs the place let’s simply say, okay, this particular person’s figuring out, I’m now going to let this contractor handle, not handle, however do consumer communication immediately with this consumer that you just’ve had for 15 years. I can see the place that might be. Sure, that’s a…
Preston (27:24.499)
to me is a approach greater step.
Tina Zegel (27:26.548)
Yeah.
Clay Mosley (27:27.518)
a lot greater step and I believe when you have a consumer who’s been working with you for 15 years, they’re mates with you at this level, proper? I believe in the event that they’re true mates, they’re gonna be completely satisfied for you that you just’re rising.
Tina Zegel (27:37.261)
Yeah, yeah, as a result of
Tina Zegel (27:47.075)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (27:50.163)
And actually on the finish of the day, they want, they want the deliverable, the value that you just’ve been delivering all this time, proper? And sure, I’m certain they value your friendship and the whole lot else that comes with working with you. However on the finish of the day, like they, the one purpose this is able to go mistaken is when you have another person working with them and so they’re not delivering the identical high quality of challenge that you just ship, proper? And-
Tina Zegel (28:17.351)
Proper.
Preston (28:18.139)
And so then it turns into like your job turns into high quality management, each within the communication and within the challenge itself. And you must oversee that. And, and I’d, I’d make that clear together with your consumer, notably should you’re deciding, should you’re making an attempt to resolve, like these individuals who I’ve labored completely with for 15 years and it’s simply been me, I believe I’d say if, if I had been in your sneakers, I’d say to them privately,
Tina Zegel (28:25.376)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (28:43.323)
Everytime you really feel prefer it’s proper to introduce them to this information particular person, proper? I’d additionally say to them privately and along with an introduction the place the opposite particular person’s concerned, I’d then say, and likewise, I need you to know the way necessary our relationship is. I’ve liked working with you. I’m going to be very, very concerned in your tasks, however it’s possible you’ll talk slightly extra with this particular person. If you happen to ever have any difficulty or concern or query or something or really feel such as you’re not getting a response or should you simply something, please come to me. I’m 100% obtainable.
you possibly can nonetheless attain me as you all the time have. However I’m simply making an attempt to, you realize, get your tasks accomplished slightly extra rapidly or deliver slightly extra further inventive aptitude or one thing like that, proper? Such as you actually finish on a constructive, however allow them to know that you just’re there 100% for them nonetheless.
Clay Mosley (29:18.625)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (29:19.984)
and
Tina Zegel (29:25.173)
Mm-hmm. Okay. So do you ever hear of individuals rising a enterprise in a approach, like hypothetically talking, in a yr from now, say I’m now not homeschooling my kids and I all of a sudden had much more time after which I went and located extra work? And what would you consider me form of persevering with my enterprise as is with the purchasers that I liked and
was once employed by a few of them, and now they’re a consumer of mine. After which if I took on new purchasers and form of handled them in another way, like they’re the purchasers which might be working with a staff extra than simply myself.
Preston (30:04.498)
Yeah.
Preston (30:12.351)
I believe there’s nothing mistaken with that so long as you simply perceive the place your time’s going to be spent, proper? Like how a lot time am I going to must proceed to dedicate to my purchasers that I need to simply work one on one with? I believe there’s nothing mistaken with that. In truth, that’s your prerogative as a enterprise proprietor to say like, these are the purchasers and tasks I need after which everybody else can have these different ones which might be going to assist pay the payments however that I’m not tremendous enthusiastic about or I don’t have an extended historical past with or no matter. There’s nothing mistaken with that. And I believe really that might be a very good segue or a very good…
Clay Mosley (30:16.779)
Yeah.
Tina Zegel (30:37.045)
Mm-hmm.
Clay Mosley (30:38.67)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (30:41.511)
kind of bridge between the place you are actually and the place you wanna be, as a result of sooner or later then, your present purchasers, who you’re fearful about, that we’ve been speaking about, possibly they get wind from one other consumer that you’ve got this staff, proper? They usually’re like, whoa, maintain on, you’ve got extra sources we might faucet into or no matter? And also you’re like, yeah, I’ve obtained a author and a no matter, and we’d love that can assist you with these tasks. Otherwise you deliver it up your self and also you’re like, hey, simply so you realize, during the last yr, I’ve added…
Tina Zegel (30:56.821)
Thanks.
Tina Zegel (31:04.361)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (31:10.827)
us, this particular person and this particular person to the staff, which suggests we will now provide these providers if there’s one thing we may also help you with. We’d love to do this. , and it simply, yeah, I believe it gives alternative to bridge that hole slightly bit.
Tina Zegel (31:17.651)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (31:22.689)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I’m unsure why I didn’t consider that earlier than, however I’m glad we’re getting on this name as a result of that actually does make quite a lot of sense to me.
Preston (31:33.383)
Oh, good. Good. Nice. Yeah. I believe, you realize, hiring, it’s a arduous one, however quite a lot of it’s in our head, proper? If you consider most companies, most companies have individuals working within the enterprise and because the enterprise adjustments and grows, it wants extra individuals and completely different individuals and individuals are used to that, proper? That’s simply the way it works. However we get so caught up in our personal head of like, oh, are they going to be mad? Are they going to really feel ignored? Are they going to? Properly, put…
Tina Zegel (31:40.597)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (31:47.931)
Yeah.
Clay Mosley (31:48.322)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (31:54.42)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (32:02.207)
Put issues into place in order that they don’t really feel ignored. Give them loads of discover in order that they don’t get mad and shocked by it and confused by it, proper? All of these items like paint out worst case eventualities and say, how am I gonna deal with this forward of time so this worst case situation doesn’t occur, proper?
Clay Mosley (32:05.367)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (32:09.127)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (32:17.702)
Mm-hmm.
Clay Mosley (32:18.478)
Yeah. Hey, one factor we haven’t talked about but is, one factor to form of like take a look at the waters with somebody is possibly you simply give them a small a part of a challenge.
as a substitute of an entire challenge. , possibly it’s one thing that’s, you realize, possibly it’s simply one thing that’s like, I don’t even know. I’m not as conversant in, possibly Preston. Preston’s graphic design, however, you realize, possibly there’s like extra just like the setup or no matter with graphic design that any person can do and you then take over. what I imply? The principle half.
Tina Zegel (32:35.015)
Yeah.
Preston (33:00.411)
Oh, I like that concept. Or you possibly can even say like, I really feel like I’ve gotten this, you realize, you talked about bundle design earlier. I really feel like I’ve gotten this bundle design possibly like 75% of the best way there. Are you able to check out it and simply, what would you alter or tweak? Possibly you may get it the remainder of the best way there and simply see how they’re in a position to praise your concepts, proper? I believe should you don’t wanna be stepping away totally from that inventive course of, which I’m gathering you don’t need to, I believe it’s necessary to see how one can work collectively.
Proper? And it is likely to be that the individuals you rent simply aid you. Possibly you continue to work on all of the tasks, however possibly they reduce down your time that you just spend individually on them by 50% or one thing. By them, possibly you do common idea, you get it shut, and you then ship them a PSD file and so they end it out or no matter. Proper? And that simply permits you to do extra tasks in the identical quantity of time. I believe there’s numerous choices there. I like that. I like that mind-set about it, Clay.
Tina Zegel (33:30.453)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (33:49.029)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (33:57.606)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, thanks. I form of really feel like I’m so deep in thought over what you’re saying. I’m unsure what I’ve right here.
Preston (34:05.467)
Hahaha
Clay Mosley (34:08.194)
, on that, only one extra notice on that, you possibly can rent somebody who shouldn’t be even a graphic designer as a result of I’m certain you’ve got quite a lot of administrative sort work that you must do.
Tina Zegel (34:22.477)
Yeah, you realize, it’s humorous, I believe it was Preston, you that stated that you just assumed that I’d need to be form of within the, within the lead and really concerned, particularly with new tasks and issues and part of me form of desires to even take a look at the waters with stepping away from that as a result of and even possibly collaborating with any person as a result of I get the factor about I might simply spend time and
Preston (34:30.943)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (34:50.285)
cash, largely cash to outsource some administrative issues. Which once I do develop my enterprise, that looks as if a no brainer that I’ll do. However I really form of typically, I simply need to collaborate with designers too. Like I’ve been working in a silo for therefore lengthy. I believe I’m extra fearful that any person’s not going to ship
Clay Mosley (34:53.591)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (35:18.557)
the precise high quality on time, then I’m really releasing some fairly sizable tasks to any person to only see what that seems like. To see it. Yeah.
Preston (35:23.475)
Hmm.
Preston (35:30.099)
Properly, I like that you just’re desirous about it that approach. And I’d simply remind you once more, then that there are many designers who ship on time, ship early. Um, yeah, I believe it could take a minute to seek out the one who works in your, in your greatest timetable, however you realize, there’s, there’s numerous dependable freelancers on the market, gifted, dependable freelancers.
Tina Zegel (35:45.981)
Mm-hmm.
Clay Mosley (35:51.394)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (35:52.47)
I do know it needs to be the obvious factor and for no matter purpose I’m like caught on the facet of this large wall there’s all these succesful designers on the opposite facet of it
Preston (36:05.719)
And the one solution to overcome that’s to have and have a constructive expertise, proper? They are saying experiences create beliefs. You’ve someplace alongside the road, you’ve had an expertise or a couple of possibly the place somebody hasn’t delivered, proper? And so that you’ve constructed up this perception in your thoughts. And so you should have some constructive experiences. It is advisable to discover some freelancers who provide you with a constructive expertise when it comes to deadline. And that’ll begin to change. And also you’ll begin to go, huh, okay, individuals can ship on time. I can belief them to do this.
Clay Mosley (36:10.07)
Mm-hmm.
Tina Zegel (36:35.866)
Yeah, I hope in six months or 12 months every time I resolve to provide it a go, I hope I can simply get again on the on a name and say I did it and it labored effectively and neatest thing ever.
Clay Mosley (36:47.342)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (36:48.103)
Properly, we hope so too. It’s been an actual pleasure chatting with you at present. This has been enjoyable for me. We’ve talked about some issues we’ve by no means talked about on the present earlier than. So thanks, Tina, for having the braveness to return on the present and let everybody hear what you’re as much as. If you need to affix us, we’d like to have you ever listener. Please go to free after which simply scroll to the underside of the web page, join a time and we chat about your enterprise. Tina, earlier than you go, will you let everyone know the place they will join with you in case they need to work with you?
Tina Zegel (37:16.277)
Completely. So I’m on LinkedIn. I’m embarrassed to say I don’t know my precise URL to get there, however my website is TinaZigel.com. It’s T-I- And from there, you’ll find me on LinkedIn additionally.
Preston (37:35.839)
I adore it. Tina, thanks a lot. I’ve been Preston from millow.co, and naturally, Clay from getdripify.com. Thanks for becoming a member of us at present, Clay. We’ll speak to you guys subsequent time.
Clay Mosley (37:36.654)
Good.
Clay Mosley (37:45.087)
See ya!
Tina Zegel (37:45.929)
Thanks.