Preston (00:02.979)
Howdy and welcome again to a different episode of Freelance to Founder. It is a particular Q&A episode the place we take questions from listeners similar to you and do our greatest to reply them as rapidly as we are able to for you, hopefully get you again on the street together with your freelance enterprise. I’m Preston Lee from Millo.co and becoming a member of me on the air as at all times is my pal Clay Mosley from GetDripify.com. Hey Clay.

Clay (00:24.694)
How’s it going, man? It is a particular episode as a result of we’re in all probability going to rant a bit, proper?

Preston (00:29.663)
We’re going to rant a bit. Sure, sir. We’re going to speak about, nicely, I gained’t, I gained’t spoil it proper up. Let’s catch up just a little bit first. How are issues entering into your world?

Clay (00:39.794)
Uh, it’s good, man. You already know, my Georgia, my toddler’s working sooner than I’m, so I’m having to take care of that.

Preston (00:46.471)
Yeah, been there. They usually don’t cease. They don’t decelerate. No less than not but. Yeah, mine haven’t slowed down but. So, nicely, let’s speak about, I can’t make small speak anymore. We received to only dive in as a result of we had been speaking about this earlier than we document. And I’ve been wanting ahead to this for a couple of days. And that is actually, we usually reply questions from…

Clay (00:49.692)
I don’t cease. Nope.

SponsoredDevelop into a sponsor

Clay (01:00.654)
Ha ha

Clay (01:03.802)
Okay, let’s go.

Preston (01:14.771)
listeners, proper? If you wish to ask us a query, you possibly can write in at freelance2founder.com ask. There’s a fast kind there. You simply sort your reply in. You’ve heard us reply questions from listeners. At this time, Clay, I’ve a query for you really, and that’s I’ve seen across the freelance neighborhood, the company neighborhood, these communities I hand around in, I’ve seen, it seems like everybody speaking about this product referred to as…

high level. It’s like gohighlevel.com or one thing like that. It seems like everybody’s speaking about it. The search, you realize, I do lots of web optimization analysis for our personal weblog. The search visitors is big. It’s similar to skyrocketing. Everybody’s speaking about it. Everybody’s questioning about it, proper? So, so the opposite day I really began a weblog submit on the, we had been going to publish on Millo and I signed up for…

Clay (01:45.496)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (02:06.467)
high level in order that I might get a really feel for what it’s, what it appears to be like like, perhaps give my advice. Like must you use this if you happen to’re constructing an company? I used to be like that is excellent for freelance to founder as a result of everybody listening is on this mode of like what instruments do I take advantage of to develop my enterprise and the way do I scale my enterprise, and so forth. So I’m pondering like that is going to be nice. I’m going to enroll. I’m going to check out it. I’m midway by means of that article and I take a break and I get on Fb and I see Clay

Clay (02:24.641)
Yeah.

Preston (02:34.415)
sort of this mini rant about high level, about you tried it and also you didn’t like it.

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Clay (02:41.094)
No, I didn’t like it. That could be a very a lot understated. And once I say I attempted it, it’s not like I attempted a free trial and hated it. I went all in on it.

Preston (02:42.727)
In actual fact, I imply, that’s an understatement, proper?

Preston (02:54.987)
Yeah, okay, so inform me, yeah, let’s undergo this course of. So I wanna hear earlier than you signed up what you had heard about it, after which let’s speak about your course of, signing up, getting began, migrating over, since you did go all in, it appears like. I used to be kind of simply utilizing it as a approach to get a really feel for it. I didn’t transfer my entire enterprise onto it. After which now have you ever moved away from it?

Clay (03:18.486)
Oh, I’ve fully moved away, yeah. So I first heard of it, when was it, three years in the past? Excessive level’s not that previous. I don’t know precisely when it got here out. Perhaps we are able to do a fast Google search. However I believe it’s solely like a handful of years. You already know?

Preston (03:19.808)
Yeah.

Preston (03:29.075)
No it’s not.

Preston (03:39.987)
Yeah, I imply, I’ve been on this area an extended time, proper? And I hadn’t heard of it. I’m doing a fast Google search. It appears to be like like, 2018, April 2018. So we’re recording October, 2023. So 5 years or so. However you realize, the primary couple of years of a SaaS, it’s like nobody hears of you in any respect. However yeah.

Clay (03:45.843)
Yeah.

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Clay (03:55.723)
Yeah, yeah.

Clay (03:59.378)
Proper. Yeah, so I first got here throughout it, man, in the event that they got here out in 2018, I got here throughout it once they had been tremendous, tremendous younger. I believe I got here throughout it finish of 2019, starting of 2020. And I got here throughout it as a result of certainly one of my shoppers was utilizing it from, as a result of they had been working with one other company who was utilizing it. They usually made my shopper get on it. And…

Preston (04:27.009)
Hmm, okay.

Clay (04:29.534)
I noticed it. I didn’t prefer it then. And what I didn’t like was the interface. I hated the interface. It’s yeah, it’s fairly fundamental, which there’s a distinction between fundamental and like easy. I assumed it was ugly. I assumed it was ugly, man. Now take into accout, like everybody has their choice, proper? Individuals who I do know individuals who use high love who like it, who like it all collectively.

Preston (04:34.095)
Ha ha.

Preston (04:38.351)
fairly fundamental.

Preston (04:45.593)
100% yeah.

Clay (05:00.13)
They usually additionally love the interface. So, however I’m simply speaking about for me, I simply didn’t prefer it. In order that’s once I first got here throughout it, I didn’t use it. I really informed my shopper to get on one thing else, proper? As a result of I refused to make use of high level at that time. After which…

Preston (05:04.906)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (05:19.403)
And I really feel like perhaps at this level, what we should always have carried out perhaps just a little bit higher is simply inform folks rapidly what it’s. So high level is from what I’ve seen, principally like they actually concentrate on the CRM facet of it, but it surely’s kind of like a enterprise administration productiveness venture administration software, proper? Yeah, they’re sort of attempting to be, I imply, there’s instruments on the market which might be sort of like this. You consider just like the HubSpots, Moxie,

Clay (05:21.728)
Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Clay (05:36.482)
They’re attempting to be every part.

Preston (05:47.259)
Even instruments that started off as simply invoicing instruments like FreshBooks or one thing like that, they’ve develop into these venture administration, you consider like monday.com or ClickUp is sort of entering into that area just a little bit extra, however they began extra on the venture administration facet. Principally, they need to be this one place that you simply go to deal with all of the items of your enterprise, from advertising and marketing to administration, CRM, clients, shoppers, all of that stuff multi functional place.

Clay (06:03.438)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (06:14.518)
Yeah, yeah, it’s a, I don’t know what folks name it. I name it like only a full automation software program, proper? Marketing automation software program, however, and there’s a number of, there’s a number of rivals on the market that do very related issues, however yeah, that’s once I first got here throughout it, after which I assumed nothing of it for a pair years after that. After which I really feel prefer it like blew up in, I suppose from their perspective in a great way.

Preston (06:22.335)
Yeah, okay, yeah.

Preston (06:29.623)
for.

Clay (06:43.582)
the place I simply noticed, I simply began seeing it in every single place. Like during the last yr. And that is the place I made my mistake. I used to be with Keap on the time, previously Infusionsoft, however now Keap. My mistake was, Keap was working for me.

Preston (06:57.815)
Okay. Yep.

Clay (07:07.87)
and I fell for the shiny object syndrome. However okay, so right here’s what I imply although, like once I stated I went all in, I didn’t simply go like and buy the software program. I bought the company level, which is 3 times greater than the conventional account if I had been to only get it for myself. However along with that, I migrated all my stuff over to it.

Preston (07:11.821)
Yeah, yeah

Preston (07:24.612)
Hmm

Preston (07:30.611)
Yeah.

Preston (07:36.547)
So if you sell your stuff, what needed to be migrated? You’re speaking shopper contact data.

Clay (07:37.191)
and uh… oh

every part. So I imply like I’ve over 20,000 emails on my record however not simply that every one of my shopper notes from teaching shoppers I had I needed to manually scrape these and put them into high level not simply that I needed to create I needed to go and absolutely combine with my billing system so I take advantage of Stripe for that. I needed to go and create all of the merchandise inside a high level I needed to go and create

Preston (07:43.819)
What else? Yeah.

Preston (07:54.301)
Oh wow.

Whoa.

Preston (08:10.251)
Oh wow.

Clay (08:11.934)
all of the workflow automations that I had from preserve to high level. I needed to go and create all of the funnels and touchdown and opt-in pages in high level.

Preston (08:22.136)
How lengthy did this take you?

Clay (08:25.218)
Uh, it in all probability took me a whole week working full days to do it.

Preston (08:28.787)
Yeah. Yeah, it’s lots of work.

Clay (08:32.906)
Yeah, in all probability a superb 30, 40 hours to love migrate it. However right here’s the factor. So an extra step to this, all of that, simply migration was simply by itself a beast. I made a decision as a result of you realize this, such as you’re a salesman, I’m a salesman, I noticed alternative on this. So with high level, you might have the power to have sub accounts.

Preston (08:58.852)
Hmm.

Clay (09:00.746)
So meaning like you possibly can create an account below your account. So if like as an company level account, you possibly can think about it as like a grasp account. After which you might have all these like sub accounts beneath the grasp. And you’ll create limitless of these on an company level. And so I assumed in my head, I’m going to supply, I’m going to resell.

this proper that is that is how high level yep that is how high level arrange you possibly can resell high level you are able to do it a pair other ways you possibly can resell it like sort of a sass white label it proper that’s what i did um i imply i informed folks it was high level but it surely had my brand on it um so i charged for that

Preston (09:31.371)
Bought it. Wish to your shoppers.

Preston (09:47.055)
Okay, attention-grabbing. So for this reason although in your Fb submit you had been like, that is actually simply an MLM. And for folks not acquainted, a multi-level advertising and marketing firm is like principally you solely earn a living if you happen to refer a bunch of individuals and I imply you’ve heard of those, like they’re the gosh, what’s the clothes one which’s been so standard these days like

Clay (09:54.466)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (10:15.512)
All of the, no, it’s not Lula, it’s Lula Gown, which went below, which went below. The documentaries are very attention-grabbing.

Preston (10:17.919)
LuLaRoe, LuLaRoe. Yeah, they did. They did exit of enterprise. I had a pal who labored there and, however, oh, I haven’t seen them, however yeah, however there’s all these MLM firms the place it’s like, they signal below you, you get a part of the income they pay and also you construct up your community and it’s an entire factor. It’s a pyramid, yeah.

Clay (10:28.77)
Yeah.

Clay (10:35.762)
Yeah, it’s just a little pyramid. Now they do have an possibility the place you may be an affiliate, which for my part is totally different, as a result of if somebody indicators up as an affiliate, sure, you get a fee of what they pay, but it surely’s their very own account. They’re not beneath you. You simply get credit, like only a referral charge, proper? You do have that possibility.

Preston (10:44.498)
Yeah, 100%.

Preston (10:53.173)
Yeah.

Clay (10:59.158)
however I went the choice of sub account as a result of I assumed, oh, cash, proper? Like I’m going to get extra money if I can resell this. So like I used to be promoting, like you possibly can sell like, if you happen to had been to only go to gohighlevel.com, somebody might simply pay $97 a month for an account. Base worth, we are able to get into that later. So I assumed, hmm, I’m going to sell this for 79 a month if you happen to do it below me. In order that’s what I did. Along with that,

Preston (11:02.326)
Yeah.

Preston (11:15.69)
Okay.

Clay (11:29.41)
There’s a very, actually high studying curve to high level. I stated, I’m additionally going to cost an extra $99 for high level teaching. In order that was a separate product. So I used to be making some cash.

Preston (11:39.352)
Hmm

Preston (11:45.407)
Yeah, like did you might have, you bought so far as to have shoppers go for this and it was a, it was a factor you had been, yeah.

Clay (11:49.13)
Sure. I didn’t get that far. I used to be making a pair thousand a month. Which is an efficient chunk of change. Don’t get me unsuitable.

Preston (11:54.581)
Okay, okay.

Preston (11:58.386)
Yeah, completely. What number of shoppers did you might have on this system that you simply had been constructing?

Clay (12:03.971)
Uhhh… I had 15 or so? Yeah. 15 or so. I solely did this for like a month.

Preston (12:06.797)
Yeah.

Preston (12:12.639)
Yeah, no, I’m simply, I’m kind of like, I’m kind of like foreshadowing, proper? I’m attempting to construct up every part that you simply did when listeners know already from the highest of the present that all of it got here crumbling down.

Clay (12:19.734)
Yeah.

Clay (12:23.018)
Oh yeah, so I forgot to, I skipped out. So it took me about 40 hours emigrate, but it surely additionally took me an extra, in all probability 50 to 60 hours to grasp it. As a result of I needed to sell the high level teaching, so I needed to grasp it. So I put in altogether triple digits in hours. So I simply, yeah, simply giving context

Preston (12:35.775)
I’m positive. Yeah.

Preston (12:46.67)
Yeah.

Clay (12:53.346)
time, cash, effort, and likewise alternative. Like I used to be making a pair thousand {dollars} simply after a month of launching. That’s loads to love give as much as simply reverse again. Proper?

Preston (13:10.935)
Yeah, so let’s get into that just a little bit extra. So your expertise, was it okay at first? I imply, it should’ve been adequate at first since you began signing on shoppers, you weren’t instantly disgusted by it, proper? Or did you see early warning indicators and also you sort of perhaps ignored them? Yeah.

Clay (13:23.573)
Ah, yeah.

That one. I noticed there, nicely, okay, so I didn’t ignore them. I noticed some early indicators in the truth that they, just like the software program’s tremendous buggy. It’s, yeah, it’s buggy, man. It’s like, but it surely wasn’t sufficient for me to be like, okay, I’m switching, proper? It was similar to little tiny quirks.

Preston (13:40.291)
Hmm, I used to be noticing that. Even simply, I simply did a fast onboarding.

Clay (13:56.798)
You already know, it didn’t actually mess issues up completely.

Preston (13:58.549)
Yeah.

Properly, and the place you knew they had been pretty younger, you realize, we now have just a little extra endurance with youthful tech firms. It’s like, ah, determine it out.

Clay (14:05.756)
Yeah.

Yeah, it was extra on that level, proper? However along with that, like stacking on high, I assumed the software program is ugly, proper? For me personally, I do know lots of people are like this. I take advantage of software program extra usually whether it is fairly.

Preston (14:11.052)
Yeah.

Preston (14:17.399)
hehe

Clay (14:29.266)
I’m not even joking. Like, if it’s prettier, I’ll use it extra usually. You already know what I imply? Like if it’s ugly, I’m not going to make use of it. I imply, that is with the idea it’s practical. So on high of that, so buggy, it was, it was, it’s ugly for my part. Additionally they’ve issues, and context, that is what I do each day. I’ve handled all kinds of software program. I imply like ActiveCampaign, Hold.

Preston (14:35.566)
Completely, completely.

Clay (15:00.054)
ConvertKit, MailChimp, I imply you title it, I’ve labored with it. Both on a private level or from a shopper level. So on condition that context, high level has some sure options in sure locations. I’m like why did they put that there? It makes zero sense why they’d put this proper right here. You already know what I imply? Prefer it’s simply… However once more, yeah.

Preston (15:04.886)
Hmm.

Preston (15:24.819)
Yeah, it appears like they only had lots of UX points. Their UX design was off, their common UX, like the place they determined to put issues and set up issues was off.

Clay (15:35.85)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it’s however once more at this level, you realize, it’s It nonetheless wasn’t sufficient for me to be like, you realize, like I neglect it. I’m simply gonna swap away It was you realize, it’s simply quirky, you realize, sure, they’re younger firm. I can I can I’ve just a little bit extra endurance for it So as to add to the quirkiness I similar to one other annoyance however once more not sufficient for me to

migrate again was they included some issues. I really feel like high ranges attempting to be every part, however they’re attempting to pressure it. So for instance, you possibly can re if you happen to if you’re I don’t understand how this I don’t understand how it’s on a person account level. I had an company level, which by the way in which context high ranges designed for companies.

Preston (16:30.223)
That’s good to know too as we now have listeners who’re nonetheless within the freelance stage and are perhaps contemplating all of them after our dialog. You in all probability gained’t be contemplating high level anymore, however that’s good to know. Why do you say that? What makes it designed for companies extra so than for solo companies?

Clay (16:45.302)
Oh, for one, they are saying this. I really talked to one of many founders at a convention. That is earlier than the entire, my entire factor went down. And he stated, we constructed this particularly just for companies, not the top consumer. And once I say finish consumer, not the small enterprise proprietor. So the problem is, I believe one of many issues that high ranges have in…

Preston (16:49.679)
Bought it, okay.

Preston (16:57.075)
All proper. Yep.

Preston (17:08.823)
Yeah.

Clay (17:13.622)
quote unquote hassle with is that they’re not staying within the lane that it’s designed to be in. They’re gladly accepting cash from small enterprise house owners figuring out that they designed the software program for companies.

Preston (17:18.583)
Hmm

Preston (17:27.119)
Attention-grabbing. They’re attempting to, yeah, they’re attempting to kind of retrofit it into an viewers that’s keen to pay, which there’s nothing unsuitable with that if you happen to then regulate the product to suit the brand new viewers, proper? However it appears like perhaps that’s not working very nicely.

Clay (17:28.511)
Yeah.

Clay (17:41.831)
Yeah, the issue is that companies, they know the right way to work with software program, proper? Any such software program. If some chiropractor or somebody like a small enterprise proprietor or medical skilled and even somebody who doesn’t take care of this software program who’s in our trade, perhaps like an online designer, or you realize what I imply?

Preston (18:04.647)
Yeah. Uh-huh.

Clay (18:08.326)
who hasn’t been on the company level, which is lots of our viewers right here, the training curve is tremendous high. It was even tremendous high for me. I imply, it took me 50, 60 hours to grasp this factor. Whereas I can hop into ActiveCampaign or KEEP or no matter and like I do know the software program fairly nicely after like 5 to 10 hours, you realize. However in any case, again to my level on they’re attempting to pressure

Preston (18:30.957)
Yeah.

Clay (18:37.462)
being every part. On the company level, you possibly can, you possibly can, there’s a characteristic in there the place you possibly can resell WordPress internet hosting.

Preston (18:38.423)
Hmm.

Preston (18:46.285)
That appears very area of interest, proper?

Clay (18:49.042)
Yeah, and you’ll resell Yext. Y-E-X-T. I believe it’s like a… No, it’s… I don’t need to quote unsuitable. I believe it’s like a… A list, you realize, you may get your record, your listing listings and sure, you may get all these like as much as par. You already know, it’s sort of like Moz.

Preston (18:53.359)
I don’t even know what that’s. Like an SMS service.

Preston (19:08.323)
Just like the telephone book? Okay.

Preston (19:17.948)
Ah yeah yeah, okay. I see what you’re saying, yep.

Clay (19:19.858)
Yeah, however you possibly can, there’s a characteristic contained in the software program that claims, hey, you need to be a Yext reseller?

Preston (19:27.075)
as a result of they in all probability have accounts there and so they’re principally doing what, it appears like they only actually love this MLM mannequin. They’re not solely members in different MLM fashions or affiliate fashions, however they’re additionally, yeah, it feels sort of in all places. And I didn’t get into it deep sufficient to expertise all these tiny little issues, however what actually received me about it was simply, once more, I’m gonna use that phrase easy, and never in a great way, as a result of there’s easy software program that’s tremendous highly effective.

Clay (19:41.739)
Yeah.

Preston (19:55.679)
and it’s like, wow, that is gonna take a lot off my plate. After which there’s easy software program the place it’s like, wow, that is gonna take me perpetually to study and I’m nonetheless unsure it’s gonna do what I really need it to do and there’s gonna be all these options that I’m gonna have to take a look at however I in all probability don’t want and that’s extra how I felt once I was taking a look at HiLabs.

Clay (19:59.287)
Uh-huh.

Clay (20:14.41)
Yeah, I can see that. I imply, it’s humorous as a result of I believe aesthetically, it appears to be like tremendous fundamental. However fairly truthfully, the performance and the training curve and all of the options it has is tremendous advanced.

Preston (20:27.375)
That’s so attention-grabbing, proper? That it might be so reversed that approach.

Clay (20:29.442)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I believe the rationale it appears to be like, the rationale why I believe so is as a result of lots of it’s the UX. Like for instance, if you go and construct, like they’ve a funnel builder.

Preston (20:37.043)
Yeah.

Preston (20:43.093)
Mm, okay.

Clay (20:45.074)
Properly, they’ve three totally different settings, like settings areas if you’re making a funnel, at the very least on the time that we’re recording this. There’s the general funnel settings, the settings for every web page within the funnel, after which you might have the product settings. Properly, it might make lots of sense.

for my part, from a UX perspective, that every one of those are, at the very least the buttons the place you’ll discover these settings, can be all in the identical location on the webpage, proper?

Clay (21:28.434)
They’ve the placement for the hyperlinks to all three of those settings throughout all the way in which throughout the webpage from one another. One’s all the way in which over to the suitable, one’s all the way in which over to the left, one’s in the direction of the underside.

Preston (21:36.14)
Bizarre.

Clay (21:44.266)
And it took me perpetually to determine that out.

Preston (21:46.127)
So it appears like there’s all these little issues which might be beginning to add up. Just like the UX is simply okay for you, you don’t just like the look of it, it’s disorganized, it’s, there’s like bizarre issues that really feel like they shouldn’t essentially be included, it simply feels very disjointed. So all of this begins including up, and at what level does it sort of swap for you the place you’re like, oh man, I’ve signed on 15 shoppers, I’ve migrated all these things over, like.

Clay (21:54.934)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (22:08.849)
Oh.

Preston (22:14.undefined)
What was the tipping level the place it was unhealthy sufficient that it was like, nope, I’m carried out?

Clay (22:20.926)
Okay, so I constructed out my automations precisely how I had, there was two issues really, two issues. I constructed out all of my automation workflows precisely like I had them in Hold, and I quadruple checked every part, proper? I even examined it a number of occasions.

Preston (22:23.404)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (22:44.813)
And if you say workflows, is that this like, as soon as a, yeah, stroll me by means of like what a workflow would appear to be.

Clay (22:50.954)
Yeah, so like right here a very easy one is when somebody downloads a lead magnet, what occurs after that? So in an automatic approach, they get an e-mail drip sequence, proper? They’re tagged in a sure approach. Yeah. And, and I’ll provide you with just a little bit extra context as a result of that is the place the error occurred. There’s a call diamond. So I’ve like 5 lead magnets on my website. I’ve a workflow automation.

Preston (22:57.305)
Bought it.

Preston (23:01.775)
They’re tagged in a sure approach in your CRM. Yeah, okay.

Preston (23:16.9)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (23:20.822)
that checks to see what tag was utilized, in order that approach the consumer is aware of, or sorry, the software program is aware of which lead magnet was downloaded, so it takes them down that path. So it tells them, consumer A downloaded lead magnet A, so subsequently they’re gonna get the e-mail drip A, proper? Or in the event that they downloaded B,

Preston (23:32.065)
Proper.

Clay (23:50.918)
e-mail drip B. So it checks for whichever tag was utilized. That’s a really, like within the automation world, that’s a quite simple automation. Yeah. Yeah, it’s tremendous frequent. And I, you realize, with this being a brand new software program, I simply newly migrated, I’m consistently checking my automations to ensure that.

Preston (23:51.63)
Proper, yeah.

Preston (23:58.967)
Very fundamental, yeah, and quite common.

Clay (24:18.018)
Did the emails get despatched to the suitable particular person on the proper time, you realize, down the suitable path? I rapidly realized there was one morning the place 171 folks received despatched an e-mail, all at 7 a.m. precisely, who shouldn’t have gotten that e-mail. 171 folks.

Preston (24:44.687)
And what had occurred? They blended up which workflow they had been imagined to be in?

Clay (24:50.182)
Sure, in order that’s what occurred technically. So I assumed, hmm, perhaps I tousled, proper? So I went in, I checked, and I used to be like, I don’t assume I did.

Preston (24:57.837)
Yeah.

Clay (25:05.846)
However let me delete this module and remake it, proper? So I assumed, okay, certainly this fastened the issue. I checked again, I made the error of not checking till like three days later. Seems one other 171 folks at 7 a.m. for the subsequent three days, totally different, a distinct set of 171 folks each day.

received despatched the identical actual e-mail who weren’t imagined to be getting despatched. And I used to be like, no f-ing approach. And so I double checked, I triple checked, I received on assist, proper? So Excessive Degree has like a assist line the place they’ve like individuals who you may get on Zoom with, which that is the factor I can say constructive about Excessive Degree, is that you would be able to get on a Zoom at any time 24-7. There could be some wait, however you possibly can go and workshop one thing, proper?

Preston (25:42.707)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Preston (25:50.781)
Uh-huh.

Preston (26:05.571)
This really is a very attention-grabbing level as a result of I, in order I used to be preparing for this episode, I used to be wanting up, you realize, on TrustPilot, high level has a web page clearly, and so they have, let’s see, I’m gonna look actual fast, 1100, over 1100 critiques, and so they’ve received 4.9 stars. And so I’m like sitting down able to have this dialog with you the place you’re actually disenchanted in it, proper? And but nearly all of folks tremendous like it. And so I’m studying by means of among the critiques simply on the primary web page.

Clay (26:27.476)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (26:34.847)
And what’s actually, actually attention-grabbing is everyone seems to be raving concerning the assist. So like in all probability what occurs is after you might have a assist expertise with them, they in all probability ask for a overview after which it pushes to Trustpilot. So like, sure, their assist is absolutely good, however for my part, you realize, an organization that doesn’t have to have you ever speak to assist can be a higher firm than one which you need to get with assist after which the customer support is nice. So.

Clay (26:58.143)
Yep.

Preston (27:02.839)
However it’s tremendous attention-grabbing, like if you happen to look on their entrance web page of TrustPilot, it’s like yeah, one, two, three, 4, I imply I’m unsure I discovered one on the entrance web page right here that wasn’t about buyer assist.

Clay (27:17.518)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I’ve a concept about that on why they’ve so many constructive critiques I’m gonna say all this perhaps I’m an anomaly. All proper, I don’t know. I Simply know I stay on this world. I Tried apply each advertising and marketing automation software program on the market that exists on some level and You already know, I went all it I imply I went all in on it in order that’s my solely

Preston (27:31.863)
Yeah

Preston (27:44.681)
Yeah.

Clay (27:47.01)
background to this so I might be an anomaly I’m similar to in any case to proceed my story I received on assist which was actually good it’s a sort of really sort of hit or miss with the assist as a result of typically you get individuals who really know what they’re speaking about some people who find themselves simply taking a look at a flowchart resolution factor or similar to what did he say okay let me examine the flowchart and search for a solution however I went in and the primary particular person stated nicely you realize this appears to be like proper like

Preston (27:55.31)
Yeah.

Preston (28:02.696)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Clay (28:16.678)
it shouldn’t occur anymore. And the reply I received was, nicely, we had a server go down the previous couple of days. And which will have induced some glitches. So I used to be like, hmm, okay, I suppose I can like, purchase that proper for now. No less than I’m hoping in my thoughts that that’s the case. Proper? So I stated, okay, you realize,

Properly, let’s simply see what occurs. Dude, no joke. The following day, it occurred once more. 7am, 171 folks.

Preston (28:50.883)
7 a.m. 171 folks. That was the second. I can inform by the way in which you’re speaking about it. That was the second that you simply’re like, yeah, I’m carried out.

Clay (28:57.374)
Yeah. Properly, I received on assist once more. They usually informed me the identical factor. Properly, it might have been a server challenge. And I’m like, when did? Yeah, they don’t know. Yeah.

Preston (29:08.803)
In order that they don’t know, they don’t know, they’re like greedy for straws at an excuse, attempting to appease you briefly, however they don’t know what occurred. Yeah.

Clay (29:17.41)
Mm-hmm. So I requested them, I stated, hey, when did the server go down? They usually go, oh, they thumbed round just a little bit, they came upon the quote unquote reply. And I stated, then that’s not my challenge as a result of this occurred outdoors of these dates. It retains occurring each single day. I needed to go and manually shut down that specific automation to cease this. After which,

Preston (29:28.736)
Yeah.

Preston (29:32.355)
And it retains occurring. Yeah.

Clay (29:45.65)
That, yeah, that was what did it. I stated, screw this, I’m carried out, I’m going again to what labored earlier than. I forgot to say that my open charges went down drastically.

Preston (29:59.503)
And okay, so I stay on this area too, proper? And that is so attention-grabbing as a result of this occurred to me once I switched from MailChimp to ActiveCampaign. ActiveCampaign was not my favourite. I attempted to modify over for a couple of options that I actually needed to check out and the options themselves ended up not being that nice. After which the general software, I simply didn’t like that a lot. A part of it’s simply what you get used to, proper? I’d been in MailChimp for 10 years. I simply knew the way it labored. However I additionally similar to their UX higher.

Clay (30:09.073)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (30:20.437)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (30:28.747)
Yeah.

Preston (30:28.939)
After which MailChimp ended up choosing up a few of these options that I needed anyway. However within the meantime, yeah, I switched to ActiveCampaign. I had the identical expertise as you, which was my very same e-mail record, we warmed it up, very same content material, identical sender, every part, and my open and click on by means of charges simply plummeted. And I reached out to them three or 4 occasions, and each time they sort of gave me the run round such as you had been getting from this assist, which was like, nicely, it might be this or might be that or simply give it some time.

After a yr on there with no enchancment, I went again to MailChimp and the primary e-mail I despatched out once more, it was again as much as…and now we now have even higher charges than we had earlier than. And once more, I get that like, yeah, we had been warming up that record on MailChimp for eight years or one thing, so I get it. However you need to…I imply, you possibly can’t say you’re an all-in-one software if you happen to can’t really ship the tech that you simply want with a view to get these high deliverabilities. You simply can’t.

Clay (31:10.249)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (31:17.097)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (31:26.962)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I imply my open price went, I averaged with Keat earlier than, like 30-35% open price. After which I went, as quickly as I went to high level, it went to love, not.

Preston (31:35.041)
Yeah.

Preston (31:41.107)
Dude, yeah, you possibly can’t, I imply that’ll kill your enterprise. You may’t be doing that.

Clay (31:42.514)
And oh yeah, after which it, after which as quickly as I swap again to Keap, again up, again as much as 35, 40% now. You already know, and you realize, it’s, really you realize what the true set off level was? Out of all of this, out of all of this, none of this was the precise set off. Even with assist telling me, hey, it’s a server factor. I really received on assist one final time.

Preston (31:52.189)
Yeah. Yep.

Clay (32:13.026)
to see if I can get any individual who is aware of what they’re speaking about. They usually did just a little extra digging. After which they, there’s a spot in high level the place you possibly can have a look at like logs, proper? Like exercise logs, like what’s occurring, like if there’s any sort of export or if a consumer did a sure factor or no matter. This specific particular person informed me that there was a…

Preston (32:28.624)
Okay, yeah.

Clay (32:42.338)
consumer after which some kind of random strings, string of characters, proper? Like that’s what the, it’s simply me and my spouse which might be customers on this account. However this particular person informed me there was one other consumer that was actually labeled consumer after which an entire string of characters and stated, yeah, it appears to be like like that you’re manually sending these emails to all these 171 folks at a time for like 5 days in a row.

Preston (32:48.156)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (33:10.755)
That consumer was?

Clay (33:13.598)
Yeah, and so they tried to inform me it was me who was manually doing it. And I’m like, I don’t know who this consumer is. It’s not me, it’s not my spouse. My spouse doesn’t even log in to high level. I’m the one one which logs into high level and there’s zero purpose why I’d manually be including these folks to an automation, which is why I’m right here complaining about it.

Preston (33:15.701)
No approach.

Preston (33:33.819)
Yeah, I see why that’s just like the scary level, proper? Since you’ve received a buyer’s non-public data, their contact data, it’s like, what are they really doing with this data? Is it protected, is it protected?

Clay (33:42.583)
Yeah.

Clay (33:48.39)
Yeah, and I got here to 2 conclusions. It’s gotta be certainly one of them. One, my account received hacked for no matter. Or two, their software program is simply fully not working accurately in any respect. Yeah, and I assumed, nope, I can not take care of this. I’ve received approach too many, I received 1000’s of contacts in right here who I can not have random emails and textual content messages going out.

Preston (33:54.753)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (34:01.527)
It sounds prefer it’s simply so buggy. Yeah.

Preston (34:15.839)
Yeah, yeah. You lose belief so quick with somebody, proper? They’re in that nurturing part. They simply signed up to your e-mail record or simply downloaded a lead magnet and also you’re in that nurturing part. You may’t be messing up like that.

Clay (34:20.447)
Yep.

Clay (34:29.754)
Yep, so yeah, so I switched instantly. Instantly. I, I halted.

Preston (34:35.725)
So how lengthy from like if you determined you had been signing up till you determined you had been out?

Clay (34:43.054)
It’s in all probability like 45 days. Yeah, it’s in all probability 45 days.

Preston (34:44.715)
Wow.

Preston (34:49.367)
Dude, that’s painful. I imply…

Clay (34:49.802)
Yep, it solely, which is, right here’s what’s humorous about this. I had to return, I needed to, sadly I needed to go recreate a brand new Hold account. However this simply goes to point out you that how sophisticated high level is. I went again, I needed to go and create a brand new Hold account as a result of my previous one was gone.

Which that was a mistake on my half. Like I ought to have simply stored it simply in case, you realize? However like Hold was costing me $600 a month, you realize? So I’m like, I’m not gonna simply preserve it round, you realize? Like…

Preston (35:23.263)
Yeah.

Preston (35:26.911)
Yeah, yep.

Preston (35:31.371)
You already know what, that’s really one factor I cherished about MailChimp is, so I went away from MailChimp, they’ve like a pause the place you principally, they retailer all of your contacts however you possibly can’t ship any emails. And so you possibly can’t really use the core performance, however they’ll retailer all the e-mail addresses, as a result of you realize, it doesn’t value them that a lot to retailer 100,000 e-mail addresses or one thing. And…

Clay (35:38.303)
A pause.

Clay (35:45.29)
Mmm.

Clay (35:51.49)
Yeah.

Clay (35:55.267)
Yeah.

Preston (35:57.183)
In order that was tremendous good as a result of then as quickly as I got here again from ActiveCampaign it was all there. I needed to migrate within the ones that had signed up whereas I used to be on ActiveCampaign, you realize, however all of the previous ones had been nonetheless there. All of their information was there. What that they had opened earlier than, what they appreciated, what workflows that they had gone down, and so forth., and so forth. Prefer it was all nonetheless there was very nice. To not brag, as a result of I’m sorry about your… Yeah, that’s too unhealthy.

Clay (36:05.946)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (36:14.798)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you realize, I did make, I made that mistake, however you realize, I used to be pondering $600, I can’t similar to pay $600 a month simply to, which I sort of, I want I did although, fairly truthfully, it might have been, yep.

Preston (36:25.061)
No, completely.

Preston (36:29.035)
Properly yeah, in hindsight, it’s like I’d have paid an additional $1,200 or one thing, but it surely wouldn’t have been that large a deal.

Clay (36:33.982)
Yeah. Yeah, so in any case, I needed to go recreate it, however what’s humorous is it solely took me two full days to recreate every part in KEEP.

Preston (36:43.479)
Properly, a part of that’s, you realize, preserve very well at this level, proper? However yeah.

Clay (36:46.846)
It’s. A part of it’s. However a giant a part of it’s, it’s approach simpler to make use of. Manner simpler. So, in any case, I received a concept on why folks love high level a lot. Why I get so many constructive critiques. The primary one is, I’m an anomaly. Perhaps I’m the one one who doesn’t like high level. As a result of apparently proper now, I believe I’m the one one.

Preston (37:05.087)
Okay? Yeah, I need to hear it.

Preston (37:10.795)
I imply, I’m…

Preston (37:14.531)
I’m positive you’re not the one one, however I really recognize that you simply say that as a result of we might be unsuitable on this, proper? That is actually similar to one man’s expertise, but additionally you’re not only a random consumer. You’ve used instruments like this up to now, a wide range of instruments like this up to now. You’ve been doing this an extended time.

Clay (37:16.157)
For those who go Google the web.

Clay (37:22.158)
Could possibly be.

Clay (37:31.167)
Yep.

Clay (37:35.254)
Properly, right here’s how I do know I’m not the one one. As a result of once I made that submit in my Fb group, there have been a ton of feedback of people that had been on high level and stated, thank God you stated this. Now I’ve a purpose to maneuver away from it. They wanted the validation, you realize? So.

Preston (37:47.064)
Hmm.

Preston (37:51.011)
They wanted the validation.

Preston (37:56.139)
Properly, and I persist with the concept that if there’s that many assist critiques, like if they’ve 1200 critiques and so they’re principally about their assist, think about how many individuals really use their assist, which suggests they’ve received lots of assist tickets coming by means of, which suggests there’s lots of errors occurring and yeah.

Clay (38:01.957)
Uh-huh.

Clay (38:13.858)
tons. I believe, nicely I don’t assume it’s simply the errors. I believe it’s the training curve, man. I believe folks hop on to assist as a result of they only need assistance simply to study the rattling factor.

Preston (38:20.186)
Ah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Preston (38:27.531)
Properly, you realize what, once I signed up, proper, they tried to, throughout my onboarding sequence, they tried to sell me on like a, you realize, an upsell on a we’ll migrate all of your stuff for you and we’ll present you the right way to use it and be sure to’re all arrange and able to go. And my perception is software program, for probably the most half, like we’re out of these days. That’s like early 2000s time when like they name a company assembly and everybody has to take a seat by means of a boring 4 hour coaching on the right way to use the brand new software program.

Clay (38:40.235)
Yep.

Clay (38:46.059)
Yep.

Clay (38:55.475)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (38:55.644)
We, that is 2023 software program, it’s best to be capable to use it intuitively. For those who can’t use it intuitively, it’s constructed unsuitable.

Clay (39:00.449)
Yep.

That’s due to early 2000s, that was across the tech bubble. It’s like know-how was simply now a factor. Or like on-line internet know-how.

Preston (39:06.099)
Yeah, yeah, precisely. Yeah, no, it’s… No, we’re approach too far for needing to have an entire coaching round a bit of software program.

Clay (39:16.462)
Mm-hmm. In actual fact, like even if you happen to have a look at preserve it was referred to as infusion delicate it This firm is like 20 years previous That’s once they began was early 2000s. And I bear in mind if you happen to signed up for infusion delicate again then you definitely needed to pay an onboarding charge for setup and all that stuff as a result of And I bear in mind this too as a result of folks bitched about it however like once more, that was like early 2000s when

Preston (39:21.182)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (39:24.557)
Yeah.

Preston (39:34.811)
Yeah.

Clay (39:46.03)
internet, even like software program within the cloud, proper, aka the web, was a brand new factor, proper? Software earlier than that, and even at that time, was principally native. You needed to set up it regionally in your machine. After which on high of that, this automation all-in-one software program was a brand new factor. So the market sophistication was immature.

Preston (40:00.427)
Yeah, in your machine. Yep.

Clay (40:14.262)
However now, 20 years later, it’s very mature. Folks know what it’s, folks know the right way to use it. There’s tons of them on the market. And now, if you happen to join Hold, there’s, I believe you might have that possibility if you happen to similar to, if you would like it, however you possibly can go and join a Hold account and you’ll go proper into utilizing it.

Preston (40:30.827)
Yeah, I imply don’t get me unsuitable, I’m all for like assist paperwork and you realize you probably have a query. However you realize, I did this once I labored company jobs. It was like we’d get a brand new, some genius would resolve it was a good suggestion for us to modify our software program to one thing else after which 25 of us would all have to take a seat in a room whereas they defined the right way to use it earlier than they’d ever even allow us to go surfing. And I’m similar to, to begin with, if it’s that sophisticated, it’s essential work in your, how the app works and your UX and your usability of it.

Clay (40:35.147)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (41:00.787)
Second of all, I’m not gonna bear in mind every part you cowl on this 4 hour coaching, proper? Your software program must be usable with out me having to take intensive notes and I don’t know. So yeah, I’m with you. There’s actually a spot for a few of that, however I believe an increasing number of software program must be intuitive. And if it’s not, it’s out.

Clay (41:05.059)
haha

Yeah.

Clay (41:11.649)
Yep.

Clay (41:19.166)
Yeah. Yeah, so there’s really 5 whole causes of my concept. We’ve already, yeah. I’m making notes. So we’ve lined two of them. That’s one, we’re an anomaly. Perhaps we’re unsuitable. Quantity two is the assist, proper? The assist dialogue. Quantity three, I believe we, yeah, we sort of talked about is the training curve is so high,

Preston (41:25.214)
The longer we speak, you retain racking up extra.

Preston (41:45.059)
Yeah.

Clay (41:49.282)
folks get on the assist, I suppose it’s lumped into that assist possibility. Alright, so the fourth and the fifth one are the principle ones I believe. And that is additionally what sort of pissed me off about Excessive Degree is if you happen to have a look at that software program in comparison with all the opposite rivals available in the market, they’re about half the value. Half if not much less. So once I say half, for context, I used to be on the company level.

Preston (41:51.747)
Yeah.

Preston (42:12.323)
I’ll get ya.

Clay (42:19.954)
of high level, which was $300 a month. That’s costlier than only a fundamental account. The essential account is definitely $100 a month. I used to be paying $600 for a similar, quote unquote, identical factor with Hold. I used to be paying $600 a month. As a result of the way in which high level pricing works is it doesn’t matter what number of contacts you might have, it’s only a flat charge.

Preston (42:30.681)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (42:47.126)
Whereas each different software program, the extra contacts you might have, it’s on a scaling pricing mannequin, proper? Yeah, it’s tremendous interesting. And I believe that’s why lots of people transfer over, as a result of it’s like tremendous low-cost.

Preston (42:52.311)
That’s, I imply that could be very interesting, proper? Yeah, yeah.

Preston (43:00.995)
Mm-hmm. They usually can develop with out the concern of paying extra as they develop.

Clay (43:05.646)
Right. Now, right here’s the place I received actually pissed off. Is that they’re not upfront about this. No less than I didn’t see it. Is that I began seeing on my bank card assertion, a bunch of random $10 prices.

Preston (43:23.092)
Oh wow.

Clay (43:24.838)
So, after which I discovered they cost a certain quantity per e-mail that’s being despatched.

Preston (43:37.894)
Bought it, so yeah, firms that ship emails, they’ll go certainly one of two fashions. It’s both pay primarily based on the quantity that you simply ship, or pay primarily based on the variety of contacts that you’ve got.

Clay (43:38.219)
It’s a-

Clay (43:47.882)
Yep. Mm-hmm. However the way in which Excessive Degree does is that they cost you in $10 increments. In order that they cost you a couple of cents per e-mail that’s being composed and despatched out. Properly, I received like 20,000 emails. And in order that provides up. So I used to be getting charged like, and I used to be sending out two, three emails per week occasions 20,000 folks. That provides up loads. And in order that $300.

Preston (44:00.659)
Bought it. Yeah, yeah.

Preston (44:12.435)
Yeah that provides up.

Clay (44:17.958)
ended up being actually like $475 a month. No, after which on high of this, as a result of I had an e-mail deliverability challenge, like I went from 35 to 9% open price, I made a decision to spend money on Mailgun, which is meant to assist with this. Now, lead, not like, high level.

Preston (44:25.027)
So at that time, you’re probably not saving that a lot cash.

Preston (44:41.088)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (44:47.314)
used to not have their very own model of mailgun, you used to should get mailgun. Prefer it was.

Preston (44:53.507)
So Mailgun is simply to let everybody know, proper? Isn’t it an e-mail optimizer? Prefer it makes positive your spam score is tremendous low, your deliverability is as high as it may be.

Clay (45:01.126)
Yeah, yeah, it goes by means of like a verification course of, like they’ll confirm that the e-mail is definitely actual and stuff like that. Like, so again within the day, when high level first got here out, you needed to buy Mailgun. It was required so as so that you can use e-mail. Properly, since then, high level got here up with their very own proprietary one referred to as Lead Connector. And I attempted Lead Connector at first, and I used to be like, dude, that is this blows, I’m getting 9%.

Preston (45:04.759)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Clay (45:28.31)
Properly they nonetheless have the choice of mailgun so I stated okay let me go buy mailgun, see if that’s higher. It did convey it up barely higher, it went from like 9 to love 14-15% which continues to be crap. Yeah. However like mailgun was costing me $150 a month so $475.

Preston (45:39.279)
It’s nonetheless like half of what you had been getting earlier than. Yeah.

Preston (45:46.995)
So now you’re at like 625. You’re principally at what you had been paying for preserve.

Clay (45:49.874)
Yeah, yeah, it was extra. It was barely greater than what I used to be paying for KEEP after which that, proper, like I used to be carried out. I used to be like, I’m paying the identical sum of money. You already know, at the very least the distinction is, is that with KEEP, I don’t have any of the headache. You already know? So in any case, that’s the fourth purpose. I believe there are constructive critiques as a result of it’s quote unquote cheap. Not in actuality, for my part.

Preston (45:53.912)
Yeah.

Preston (46:06.56)
Yeah.

Clay (46:19.75)
The final one is, and I believe this can be a actual purpose, is it’s an MLM. We already talked about this. It’s, it’s, they do have the affiliate half which isn’t MLM, however they’ve the MLM the place if you happen to enroll a bunch of sub-accounts below you, like that’s an MLM. As a result of what occurs if you because the grasp account quits? There’s certainly one of two choices. One,

Preston (46:24.822)
Yep.

Clay (46:47.806)
All these subaccounts, they should be transferred to a different particular person, one other grasp account. Or, or they join a model new account that’s below their very own title. After which they’ve to begin from scratch.

Preston (47:04.703)
That’s nuts, that’s bonkers to me. I suppose I might see like, you realize, like if you happen to’re white labeling it or one thing, you realize, I might kind of see why that may work. However, oh, that’s loopy to me. To think about that like, no. Properly, and to think about that my account is topic to your enterprise, staying in enterprise, and persevering with to make use of that software program, that’s simply nuts.

Clay (47:06.875)
or the account goes away.

Clay (47:22.003)
It’s not moral to me. It’s not moral.

Clay (47:29.298)
Sure. Mm-hmm. I imply, there’s simply an excessive amount of at stake. There’s an excessive amount of at stake as a result of what if I used to be a sub-account below any individual else? And I don’t know this, proper? Perhaps I don’t know. Most individuals really don’t know. They don’t know that if their grasp account decides to not use high level.

Preston (47:40.627)
Yeah, precisely.

Clay (47:54.07)
then their account both needs to be going to a different particular person or they’ve to begin a brand new account or their account goes away. There’s an excessive amount of at stake. I’ve so many workflow automations and I spent so many hours and a lot cash and I’ve 20,000 contacts that I personal. What occurs if my grasp account quits and doesn’t inform me?

Preston (48:13.619)
Yeah, no approach. No approach. Yeah, if that’s actually true, if that’s actually how that works and there’s like no approach of getting back from that, I simply can’t even think about what that’s going to, that’s completely going to come back again to chunk them.

Clay (48:23.883)
Proper?

I don’t, I simply don’t need that a lot of my enterprise to be depending on another person like that.

Preston (48:33.419)
Yeah. For me, you realize, that is actually attention-grabbing to wrap this up. I believe, I believe that is, we advise folks towards this shiny object syndrome all of the time and I’ve been responsible of it. You already know, I shared my lively marketing campaign story. You’ve been responsible of it. We’ve all been responsible of it. It’s very, very simple to do, however that is perhaps like one of many clearest tales I’ve ever seen of shiny object syndrome the place it’s like, this simply wasn’t price it. It simply, if one thing is working,

To me, to modify after I’ve carried out this unsuitable a pair occasions, with a view to swap, it needs to be like approach, at the very least twice nearly as good and apparent that it’s gonna be, it will possibly’t simply be marginally higher as a result of typically it’s like, nicely, you realize, if it’s 10% higher, I can in all probability determine that out by cobbling collectively a pair additional items of code or apps or integrations or one thing. It needs to be considerably higher.

Clay (49:08.423)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (49:24.707)
for me to vary every part, danger all of it, as a result of lots of occasions you simply find yourself coming again to what you might have arrange that’s working. When one thing’s working, that’s, I believe we perhaps undervalue that. When one thing, notably on the subject of automation and stuff, if it’s working, simply depart it alone.

Clay (49:25.155)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (49:40.982)
Yep, that’s the lesson of this episode. I imply, even if you happen to’re on high level presently and also you’re listening and it’s working, simply preserve it. Yeah, simply preserve it.

Preston (49:49.951)
And don’t change as a result of we stated to if it’s working. Yeah. Yeah, we’ll additionally embrace hyperlinks to Clay’s high level sub account. You may enroll below him.

Clay (50:02.034)
Hey, I do have an affiliate hyperlink if you wish to enroll. I’m a Hold Licensed Accomplice now.

Preston (50:07.251)
Oh, we is not going to be together with hyperlinks to Excessive Degree after this episode. Not that anybody would click on on them. We’ll embrace, you realize, I’ll embrace our record of high 10 CRMs for freelancers and companies, which is definitely certainly one of our hottest weblog posts, and it does embrace on their preserve. I used to be going to incorporate Excessive Degree, however after this dialog, I don’t assume I’ll. We’ll see how time performs on the market.

You already know what? They might come again too, proper? They might in 5 years from now, might be like they’re the market chief and indeniable. However for now, yeah, for now, thanks for sharing your story, Clay, and serving to the remainder of us know to not perhaps assume twice earlier than we go soar on the shiny bandwagon of go high level.

Clay (50:33.538)
They might come again, yeah.

Clay (50:53.403)
I’m hoping, that is what I’m hoping to achieve with this episode is the folks which might be presently on it and so they’re annoyed with it however they’re attempting to hold on to it however they hear all people else saying you need to use this. Right here’s validation. You don’t have to make use of it if you happen to’re annoyed.

Preston (51:11.071)
You don’t, you realize what, that goes for any software program you’re utilizing. It ought to make your life simpler. You don’t have to stay with something simply because it’s quote unquote the market chief or since you noticed another person use it. Like this occurred a short while in the past. You know the way Pat Flynn, Sensible Passive Revenue, for years, he made an enormous bulk of his earnings from selling Bluehost as an affiliate.

Clay (51:15.096)
Anybody, yeah.

Clay (51:33.768)
Mm-hmm.

Preston (51:35.999)
And it seems Bluehost is simply okay on the subject of internet hosting. If you need something greater than fundamental internet hosting, Bluehost just isn’t actually the best choice. And but, yeah, and but folks talked about it prefer it was the very best factor as a result of they received 200 bucks each time somebody signed up, proper? Yeah, oh yeah, and Bluehost is aware of it. They usually lean into that technique. And by way of advertising and marketing, good on them. When it comes to really buyer satisfaction and…

Clay (51:44.298)
I believe it’s lower than okay.

Clay (51:51.866)
Oh, they received the very best fee, the very best, yeah.

Preston (52:04.367)
precise product, they undoubtedly have room to enhance. All that to say, you don’t should go along with what everybody’s speaking about as a result of usually what everybody’s speaking about, there are different motives in addition to simply your finest pursuits in thoughts. Hold that in thoughts. It’s a superb factor to consider if you’re contemplating switching. Clay Mosley from GetDripify.com. Been tremendous enlightening for me at this time, hopefully useful for the listeners as nicely. Thanks a lot, man.

Clay (52:08.246)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (52:19.746)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (52:33.406)
Yeah, for positive. Completely satisfied to rant, as at all times. Ha ha.

Preston (52:36.972)
This has been our longest Q&A episode thus far, however I needed a rant. That is completely a full episode. You’re getting lots of bang to your buck on this episode, undoubtedly. I’ve been Preston with milo.co and we’ll speak to you guys subsequent time. See you.

Clay (52:41.87)
This could be a full episode.

Clay (52:52.994)
See ya.